COMPLETE playback thread

[noidea]

So...playback pops out in every second thread it seems, so I decided to make one thread for discussions about playback, I know theres an old thread(around 2006 or something?) ariound, but I can't use the search and the user who created that thread maybe isn't around anymore.

So, I think a list with all ever performed songs will be a good idea, so every single song can be checked and if someone knows/can prove that a song is playback or live, he/she can write in this topic or PM me and ill add a note in this post after the song^^

OK, starting with the list:
Songs colored blue means the song is (probably)live, songs colored red means its (probably)playback, songs colored black means theres no proof for it being live or playback, theres a little comment for every song(grey).
We can NEVER say for sure something is playback or live unless ayu makes a mistake, so please consider that a marked song doesn't necessarily means it is playback or live, but that it's MOST LIKELY playback/live(depending on the colour), that's the reason theres a little comment for every song, to discribe why I/we think it's playback or live.
It is possible that information are wrong.

Tours

more will be added in the next days, im sorry i dont have time to add other concerts now, tomorrow ill have much time^^

Countdowns

Coming soon...

a-nations

Coming soon...

others

Coming soon...

TV appereances

May come never...(too many performances!)

Start discussing xD(if you find something to discuss about) as i wrote, i cant make all the post now because its quite much work^^

[Andrenekoi]

Well... At08 DVD version was filmed on Taipei and she as sick... That's why her voice in the cutesy part was SO high, for example

About the sound on DVD... they edit sounds when editing dvds... they can fix Ayu's voice (it's easy to see this comparing countdowns tv and dvd versions, 05-06 is a good example). I would not be surprised if they used the same sound on performaces of tv and dvd version of AT08 (the tv version wasn't broadcasted live) choosing the one where ayu sounded better...

A good example of how well done this editing can be is Utada's Live at Budokan DVD

[noidea]

Yes, they edit the DVDs very much, wasn't there even a performance in CDL0203 where the mic was turned out for most of the song and on the DVD it was just perfect? Its so good that I didn't even notice she's sick on my DVD o.0

[Andrenekoi]

Her voice is a bit strange there, a more experienced singer can tell this (even if I'm taking singing classes, it's not my case xD Showed some AT08 performaces to a friend that listens to jpop and happens to be a singer and she asked me why Ayu's voice was so strange on that live)

[Yukitora]

I think the culprit here is editing the audio AFTER the concert. Maybe going as far as using audio records of performances on a different day on top of the taipei video. Not actual use of playback.

ie. what adrenekoi said.

[noidea]

It's possible, thats why I never wrote its playback unless there sourced that are NOT edited(live broadcasts, fancams) but for Marionette the fancams really sounded very similar from what i remember about it

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by noidea

ASIA TOUR 2008 A

Some of these I have to disagree with.

First off, talkin' 2 myself is definitely live. She sounds the same probably because she's very consistent when singing it. If you look at all of the TV lives of t2m they all sound very similar as well.

From what I can see, both my name's WOMEN and decision are definitely mimed. Her mouth movements are pretty off/exaggerated and her voice sounds suspiciously unlike her voice in the songs that were live.

(don't) Leave me alone is completely mimed, imo.

a-nation '08
Greatful days, fairyland

a-nation '07
1LOVE, until that Day...

CDL '05-'06
theme of a-nation '03

AT06
STEP you, Ladies Night, alterna (not completely sure, very suspicious though)

AT05
Completely live as far as I can tell.

AT07
imo most of the concert was suspicious. 1LOVE definitely wasn't live.

CDL '08-'09
ANGEL'S SONG for sure. A good portion of the concert still looks suspicious to me. If you listen to Who... and the songs in the encore, the mic echo seems a lot sharper than it does with the rest of the songs.

[Andrenekoi]

She sang 1love live most of the time... the thing here is the use of loud backing vocals when she was dancing more =)

[noidea]

talkin' 2 myself isnt very similar, its THE SAME

why would she stop the notes way too early whenever she makes a movement when shes miming?(my name's WOMEN)
and...where do the headmicsounds come from in playback?

I only accept things for the list that are someway proven(video or audioproof, or a movement she cant possibly have done that way, or other performances from the same time which sound completely off, just SOMETHING that really proves it), so the only one ill mark red will be theme of a-nation, ill mark the others as maybe playback

[Coelacanth]

Originally Posted by noidea

I only accept things for the list that are someway proven(video or audioproof, or a movement she cant possibly have done that way, or other performances from the same time which sound completely off, just SOMETHING that really proves it), so the only one ill mark red will be theme of a-nation, ill mark the others as maybe playback

First of all, I'd like the add that the only ones that I think people can definitely say are mimed are ANGEL'S SONG from PCDL and theme of a-nation '03 from CDL 05-06. These are the only two in which it is obvious to anybody watching them that she mouths a completely different word than what comes out. I think the rest are pretty much based on how each person perceives them. So when I say "1LOVE from so-and-so tour was definitely lip-synched" I mean that to me, it definitely seems like it is lip-synched. The two instances mentioned above however, nobody can deny because they are just too blatant. It is nearly impossible to actually prove that the others are lip-synched because the evidence is not nearly as blatant, that is why so many people have different opinions as to which performances are mimed. I've watched a lot of live concerts by many different artists, and I kinda just know when something about a performance doesn't feel real.

The fact that she doesn't use the original recording while miming, as evident in the above examples, really complicates things. The playback she used for ANGEL'S SONG, for instance, was not perfect vocally. Nobody should be able to use the excuse that her vocals were bad so it can't be mimed. The intention of miming here is to give the illusion that she is actually singing and that it feels and sounds live.

I do think a big reason why Ayu mimes in the first place is because she is a perfectionist and really wants to give her fans the best show possible. What she doesn't realize is that she risks her credibility when she does this.

[noidea]

Yes, but my name's WOMEN wasn't just "not perfect", but it was so much worse than AT05 and full of singing mistakes, especially with the choreography in the beginning

[Evolution7/4]

Also when editing the DVD sounds, they may use sound from another concert date, so it may be live, just not from that specific date. AT 08 sounds very very like the Taiwan news clip, like at some points it sounds like they "brighten" some sounds on the DVds when she goes a tinge off key ebcause of the half deafness, but overall AT 08 is a very lightly edited concert on DVD. And the TV version is the japan concert, can't compare them.

[SunshineSlayer]

Well, before getting to into this, I'll say that it is basically impossible to know prior to 2004 whether she lip synched or not unless there is evidence in a tv version of the concert. This is because there didn't exist to many english fan reports about concerts then and the dvds even then were heavily edited.

Also, I will only say that I strongly believe something was lip synched if I was at the show/tour in question. Any other time, its simply my best guess and could go either way.

That said, you can maybe add 1 Love and Until That Day from A-nation 07 to the list - when I was there I really questioned whether they were live or not. Also, that in turn makes me speculate a bit about them at the AT07 tour.

I also was at Best of CDL 06/07 and thought that one was more or less 'safe' when it came to lip synching. Nothing really jumped out at me as being obviously not live at that show. Same goes for the My Story tour.

CDL 05/06 - Theme of A-Nation was definitely lip synched (for god knows what reason.) Had the same mistake caught on tv as Angel's Song at the PCDL.

As for the current tour, I have read a few comments that speculate about playback but I haven't seen anyone go into detail yet.

As for TV appearances - I'm a collector and have every single one. Only a couple of Seasons performances have ever been in question, other than that her tv lives have pretty much always been live, sometimes with a backing track.

Also, about DLMA at AT08. When I saw it, I thought it was totally playback the whole time. What I saw though was the Japan show, not the Taiwan show. In the Japan show she spends most of the song on the wheel. I also have highly suspected that not only is Marrionette and DLMA synched(at the japan show at least) but that also Decision and my name's women were too. I remember posting after I saw AT08 that I suspected this because I heard no mic sounds - after DLMA which I was so sure was lip synched, I remember actively listening for mic sounds in the rest of the performances and couldn't hear any for that whole section of performances. Then I finally watch the AT08 DVD like a week ago and suddenly I hear breath sounds in those performances. I'm dumbstruck like, is Avex even editing in mic sounds now? Crazy. Also, Coelacanth makes a good point (and I thought this as well), Ayu's voice sounds completely different prior to that section of songs and then goes back to how it was sounding at the start of the concert after it. Doesn't that strike people as weird?

And Coelacanth is right, the only 100% way that you can say is if she is caught like on Angel's Song or Theme of A-Nation, but I also think it is silly to think that the only 2 songs she ever lip synched on in her whole career were the ones she got caught on. (it seems several people do actually think this)

Originally Posted by noidea

Yes, they edit the DVDs very much, wasn't there even a performance in CDL0203 where the mic was turned out for most of the song and on the DVD it was just perfect? Its so good that I didn't even notice she's sick on my DVD o.0

Yep, for like half of everywhere nowhere, there was no sound. Yet on the dvd it is perfect.

And just so arguments don't start here - this does not necessarily have to be a negative thread! Think of it more as an active discussion/investigation thread.

[Evolution7/4]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

And just so arguments don't start here - this does not necessarily have to be a negative thread! Think of it more as an active discussion/investigation thread.

Absolutely. like I said, I don't mind playback being used at all as long as it isn't a whole concert. Ayu may use it more than once in a concert but for the most part she sings a majority live. plus she is/was dealing with hearing issues which imo can account for the occasional playback uses.

[chloeM]

who cares about playbacking... she has been like exhausted for the rehearsals and she has to dance too~

[AyUmIXx]

Know what, sometimes we can't really know whether Ayu does lip-synch or not ..because when we think she is, but it turns out that she is not.. then we think she is not where in fact she is.. even it's kinda hard to recognize if you're really there at the concerts..

because, like example, in Marionette AT08, Ayu's voice definitely sounded so different from the CD version's voice and it sounded live, but sometimes, it made me think that the way of her singing with the whole acting and dancing throughout that song, how could her voice sound so stable even though it sounded live, didn't we suppose to hear a little bit of her breath?? so what i could think of the method she's been using (to make ppl think she sings live where in fact, she's not, that in some songs that are seemed difficult to sing live when she has to dance and act at the sametime) is that she will record some of the songs with the live band music arrangement first, during rehearsal, in a studio maybe, then at the day of performance, they will play the recorded version of Ayu's singing to match with the live band music (where Ayu has recorded together with the live band before),so that when she's singing, she can just pretend to sing where at the same time, she can save energy to sing the next song.. she can at least save her vocal for the next song..can you guys imagine of her to sing for like more than 30 times of performance?? sing the exact same list for 30 times?
well that's only what i could think of though whether Ayu sometimes sounds live and sometimes not..
but from my experiences attending both AT07 and AT08 before.. she sang mostly live for all the songs except for maybe 1-3 songs per AT~ which songs that i couldn't hear her breath at all~

that's all the proof that i could think of..and i really couldn't make sure which songs she used playback and which not..even i was in both concerts before.. i was getting too hyped up to forget whether she sang live or not.. all i could hear that she's live..haha..but only with Marionette AT08, i felt she used playback..other than that, she sang live...

oh yeah, it's certainly very obvious that she used playback at PCDL's angel's song..
and it's funny that i insisted my friend that Ayu obviously lipsynched on that song, but he insisted me that she didn't, he said thousand reasons to defend Ayu.. then i told him.. relax, it's really not a big deal if Ayu lipsynch in some songs.. she's human being, she has limits...
it's totally a blind person who said Ayu sang angel's song live at PCDL..where in fact, she sang wrong lyric, but the singing turned out different..haha that's sooo obvious..thx for the camera man who has zoomed Ayu close up so that we could make sure that Ayu really lipsynched on that song

[emi♡]

so anyways....anyone have any speculations about possible playback for Stadium tour?

which i really wish she would watch and take lessons from for her current tours...lol

[alternarist]

i dont get the rationale behind this thread.

blue means probably live, which also could mean probably playback, which is red.

red means probably playback, which also could mean probably live, which is blue.

Since we have no proof whether the blue or red songs are really live or playback? they belong to the black section as well!

so we cant prove anything, why are we still dwelling about something that nobody has the answers?

[noidea]

I wrote (probably), I know it can't be said for sure, but this thread was a idea for gathering all discussions in 1 thread instead of spreading them over the forum and so that people who think she might have lipsynched a song can look that up, I never insisted that the information here are 100% accurate, thats why I always write a comment about why I think it's playback, so people can think about it theirselves and then agree or disagree with me

@ SunshineSlayer

Thats what I wanted with this thread, there shouldnt be discussions about wether its good or bad in here, but about which songs are sung playback(and maybe why they were sung playback?) and which not.

@ alternarist and other people that hate every discussions about playback:
This thread makes it easier for you, too, if you dont want to be caught up in playback discussions or dont want to have to read all the playback discussions, you can just stop visiting this thread and youll see way less of them^^

@ SunshineSlayer(now about the real topic xD)
you visited A-nation 07 and ASIA TOUR 2007, right? And 1 LOVE and Until that Day seemed lipsynch in both? That means that they probably took the same playback for it, we should just check that and maybe well find out a bit, only thing i know is that CDL0607 the first computerized voice of ayu in until that Day... sounded horrible, up to parts where you didnt hear her much, so i think that performance at least was live, they would have computerized it better(like in AT07) if they had time to edit a playback

AT08: My hearing isnt good enough to sense that difference between her voice before and after, but i didnt notice anything in that way, not at all, maybe they had many performances playback in the beginning of the tour because ayu was very bad from her deafness, it became better and later it was less playback? I just cant believe shed choose such a bad my name's WOMEN playback and why would they add mic-noises? Theres many people not even knowing there are mic-noises when using a headmic and they probably dont know about all the playback discussions in the international forums, is it the same in japanese forums about playback? and i wrote somehwere else already: CDL0405 Trauma had almost no mic sounds(at least in the DVD version, im planning to download the tv version in a few days), yet it was live.(forgot lyrics)

[alternarist]

Originally Posted by noidea

@ alternarist and other people that hate every discussions about playback:
This thread makes it easier for you, too, if you dont want to be caught up in playback discussions or dont want to have to read all the playback discussions, you can just stop visiting this thread and youll see way less of them^^

no i dont hate it, but i feel that ur colour allocation is a bit confusing.

and also since this issue has been debated and debated over and over again without a conclusive result, i would rather you discuss about ayu's PCDL cover.. that would be more of a useful time spent.

no ill intentions.