[News] Utada Hikaru named the most influencial artist of the decade by Japan Times

[Mr. Goto]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

If we reaaally want to argue about who first brought the R&B style to Japan, I think a case can actually be made for Mariah Carey. At the time that I lived there in the mid-90s her albums were everywhere - it was basically the Mariah Carey + Namie Amuro show over there then. She was quite influential and is the only non-Japanese artist to have overall sales in the top 50 of the Oricon charts. I agree though that Hikaru was the first Japanese person though to make it popular, but the seed had already been planted by Mariah and to a lesser extent Amuro who did have some R&B influenced things going on at the time, especially in her album tracks.

True about Mariah. Also prior to Utada there was already quite a few popular songs and artists using R&B and rap influences. The Bubble Gum Brothers, ZOO, m.c-A-T (lol), a ton of TK produced people excluding namie, Morning Musume, MISIA, etc.

With the way some people act you would think R&B was nonexistent in Japan before Utada lol.

[hpg23]

Originally Posted by amorphose

The Kumi ones are sort of true, I think. I'm so disappointed about the route she went on after BEST ~first things~. Her music totally changed and it was all for image and sales. But I mean, hey... she wasn't selling when she was making her previous style of music so she was forced to reinvent herself.

You had me until you said that she was forced to reinvent herself xD

Koda Kumi has always been about marketing and image. Of course she has a great voice and talent, but she has never (and I've been following her since her debut) had the musical influence of Utada or Ayumi, who are the only female artistes of the whole decade who have had somewhat of a big influence on the conception of J-Pop and the musical trends that preceded them. Koda has always been a marketing product, designed to sell, to appeal to mainstream masses and to stay "safe" in genres and imaginery that were somewhat new to Japan, but totally overused in the West, and that frankly, did not add anything to the industry, generating lots and lots of performers that followed her style and time and were probably inspired by her (Maki Goto, Meisa Kuroki, etc.).
Also, she had her only peak at her time, and hasn't remained constant for 10 years.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^I prefer Hikki over Ayu and I'm not in love with the article... It's not a matter of Hikki, or Ayu or Misono being named the most influential, it's a matter of bashing everyone else to make Hikki look good.

He even praised her by her failed USA career and used it as a argument to why she is better than the others... and Worst than that, Japan Times bashed TITO some months earlier as a sell-out

misono lul wot?

Do you realize the importance of the fact of being able to crossover into a market (no matter the success) as different musically and aesthetically as Japan's as the US scene is? I don't think it's anything bad to say about her career, even if she flopped. And even if they say that TITO sucks, no one can deny that Exodus is, along with DEEP RIVER and Distance, the best Utada Hikaru album ever, on which she experimented, and she did it the right way, taking her music to a whole new level (ahem, Ayu anyone? xDDD that's a next level.)
The influence that Utada Hikaru has had on the decade, can't be questioned. Also, she has remained consistent on her artistry, even if you ignore TITO because of her questionable artistic value, you can see how her whole 2000s disography, from Distance till HEART STATION, has remained quality consistent over most of the time period, evolving her style and keeping things fresh and new.
Ayu has also had a huge influence and all that, and is 2nd in my list for this, but Utada pwns her anytime just for one word: consistency.
Ayumi was "on track" musically speaking, until (miss)understood or so. And she had some hit or miss moments before that, which are understandable because of her huge frequency of releases, but that sadly, decreases her chances of being considered as the most influential artist.

[keikeiaznqueen]

I think this article gives too much credit to Hikki for bringing in the RnB influence. I like Hikki and all and I know her big hits were VERY VERY big, but to say she changed the landscape of the Jpop industry is really overstating her influence because there are many many other influential people in the last decade who changed the industry and helped morph it into the way it is today. (For example, individuals like Tetsuya Komoro paved the shape of the stage in the 21st century. After all, the last decade of the 20th century was pretty much his. I would even argue that Ayu has had a huge musical influence because, who could deny Ayu's ties with the popularity of eurobeat in Japan in the beginning of the 21st century?)

All that aside, I know this article refers to the most influential artist of the decade musically, but the title given to Hikki is "The Most Influential Artist", and I think the word artist encompasses everything from music to image, style, marketing, and impact on the audience. In other words, an artist is not only a musician, he or she can also be a performer or someone who resonates with the audience. Hikki is certainly a brilliant musician. I love her music (but I do agree that sometimes her notes aren't as controlled as they could be.) But she's different in that she's not really a performer. Ayu, on the other hand, may not be as musically talented as Hikki in composing or singing, but she is a brilliant performer and producer (I remember Max Matsuura once saying that the credits of Ayu's albums and singles should really say "produced by Ayumi Hamasaki" due to the amount of work Ayu puts into managing her own career's path.) I think in this scale, Ayu is definitely not inferior.

Now, especially since we're talking about influence, I think Ayu's influence on the industry cannot be ignored, especially since she has been the most important artist to the highest earning music label in the last decade. Apart from that, her influence in terms of style and image has also been very visible. If some girls wanted to dye their hair before, then all girls want to dye their hair now. It's that sort of different. Also, the obsession with huge eyes you see in gyaru magazines is definitely mainly thanks to Ayu.

Anyway, I think I've voiced my response now. I thought the article was indeed biased, but the points it raised about Hikki--I do agree that she has been one of the most influential artists in the last decade. It's just that the article makes this claim while discrediting the influence of other artists. If there were more balance to this article, it would have been much better.

[Crystal_Ageha]

^ I do agree that this article gives Hikaru quite a lot of credit, but I also believe that she should be known as the one who mostly brought Western R&B to Japan. There were others, including a few American artists who had some influence, but she was the main one. I don't think Amuro should even be brought into that conversation, either, because she wasn't R&B/hip-hop until years after Hikki came out.

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

...about Hikki's lyrics: I agree that her English lyrics for the most part are awful. Often times too the English translations of her Japanese songs aren't that good either. Japanese however do love her lyrics. It has something to do with her use of Kanji and word plays being very skillful but it is something that does not come across in translations. (very much like the lyrics for Mr. Children's songs; in Japan their lyrics are loved but the translations of them often come out crap.)...

I've actually heard this before, but honestly, I've never seen a non-translated, kanji version of her lyrics, so I really can't say anything on that. You know, maybe I should see if I can notice what they're talking about, hah...

Originally Posted by mcluva420

...Shes one of the best female J-pop singer-songwriters imo. I assume that you just wanna prove that Ayu is the most influential J-pop artist + putting down Hikki's points?

Okay, so that's your opinion. But the point of my post wasn't to put Hikaru down, it was to state my opinions on why she isn't as influential to me as others, and to make an assessment of ways she could possibly be influential to people, compared to others who I feel deserve this title more (which, yes, that includes Ayumi, but she's not the only one). There's a difference. And I'm sorry that I personally don't like most of her lyrics or compositions, but that's just my taste, which is obviously different than yours.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by hpg23

Do you realize the importance of the fact of being able to crossover into a market (no matter the success) as different musically and aesthetically as Japan's as the US scene is? I don't think it's anything bad to say about her career, even if she flopped. And even if they say that TITO sucks, no one can deny that Exodus is, along with DEEP RIVER and Distance, the best Utada Hikaru album ever, on which she experimented, and she did it the right way, taking her music to a whole new level (ahem, Ayu anyone? xDDD that's a next level.)
The influence that Utada Hikaru has had on the decade, can't be questioned. Also, she has remained consistent on her artistry, even if you ignore TITO because of her questionable artistic value, you can see how her whole 2000s disography, from Distance till HEART STATION, has remained quality consistent over most of the time period, evolving her style and keeping things fresh and new.
Ayu has also had a huge influence and all that, and is 2nd in my list for this, but Utada pwns her anytime just for one word: consistency.
Ayumi was "on track" musically speaking, until (miss)understood or so. And she had some hit or miss moments before that, which are understandable because of her huge frequency of releases, but that sadly, decreases her chances of being considered as the most influential artist.

Well, I disagree... IMO her best album is Heart Station, and I really like TITO too.. I like her english lyrics. The way she play with words, concepcts and sounds on her english lyrics is VERY interesting IMO, but I also found it stupid until I needed to give it a close reading in order to translate the album^^ And if u ask me... Utada maturity as a songwritter started on Heart Station (not that her older albuns are bad, just that she was more trying to find a way of her own, and she finally get it on HS IMO). About Ayu... people on Japan Times hate her... she is always used as an example of how an artist shouldn't be on that site!

Every big music market needs a powerhouse musician and a powerhouse performer... IMO Hikki and Ayu fit this with perfection, even if Hikki can be surprisingly good on stage sometimes, and that Ayu is far from being a crappy musician

About the lyrics... Ayu's are easier to relate to than Hikki's... But Hikki is more skillful when it comes to use the words... Ayu's are lyrics from a diary, Hikki's are poetry... who is better?It depends on what u want....

[emi♡]

You know, for all people talk about Koda being about image and marketing, a lot of these artists we're talking about would be nothing without their image and their marketing.

and who knows, maybe in 10 years, people are going to credit Koda with being the first person to introduce hip-hop into the japanese industry...and what's interesting, is that, I've already seen those claims being made.


imo, I don't think there's an artist who has single-handedly done enough for the entire industry...it's rather been this conglomerate of really popular people, who have all done different things, which is important I think.

Because if Japanese music was so influenced by only one person, I don't think it would be so diverse and versatile as it is, which is something that we all love about it. All of these people represent how multi-faceted the industry is, and I think it is necessary to recognize each one.

And that's something the author really failed to do...and honestly, from all of the comments he's made about other artists, I don't think he really understands the industry at all, or at least as much as he tries to make out.

He's certainly missing what's so great about it.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by emiko

You know, for all people talk about Koda being about image and marketing, a lot of these artists we're talking about would be nothing without their image and their marketing.

and who knows, maybe in 10 years, people are going to credit Koda with being the first person to introduce hip-hop into the japanese industry...and what's interesting, is that, I've already seen those claims being made.


imo, I don't think there's an artist who has single-handedly done enough for the entire industry...it's rather been this conglomerate of really popular people, who have all done different things, which is important I think.

Because if Japanese music was so influenced by only one person, I don't think it would be so diverse and versatile as it is, which is something that we all love about it. All of these people represent how multi-faceted the industry is, and I think it is necessary to recognize each one.

And that's something the author really failed to do...and honestly, from all of the comments he's made about other artists, I don't think he really understands the industry at all, or at least as much as he tries to make out.

He's certainly missing what's so great about it.

Pretty much this...
I find it funny when people say that Utada is a "marketing free" artist, while half of Heart Station had strong tie-ins...

[emi♡]

^I dont think that tie-ins are really the kind of marketing people really refer to when they talk about it...it's more about exposure and press, i think anyway....posters, CMs, TV appearances, mags, articles, hype, etc.

Not that tie-ins aren't strategic, or that they aren't tools...

[Andrenekoi]

^Well, but that's the funny part... Utada's fans act like she have strong sales cuz she is talented and all that crap, but considering the amount of tie-ins she has, it's easier for the general public to listen to her musics without they going for it than... Ayu or Koda... I mean... U turn ur TV on and while ur r watching ur favorite drama that has a Utada song, u listen to 2 more songs on the comercials... after the drama u go to the movies with ur friends and listen to one more Utada song in the credits....

Ok, she is not putting her face everywhere, but she is putting her music everywhere, and that's marketing..

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Ageha

I don't think Amuro should even be brought into that conversation, either, because she wasn't R&B/hip-hop until years after Hikki came out.

Actually as I mentioned, several of Namie's 90s tracks had R&B influences; especially in her album tracks. It definitely wasn't all out like she would later do, but it is something along with Mariah, M.C.AT. and other R&B and hip hop influenced acts that were popular in Japan in the 90s that helped kind of add fuel to make it popular later. Hikki I see as the spark that made it ignite.

And yes, I agree about the marketing and image discussion - even Hikki to a certain extent relies on marketing in order to sell.

[emi♡]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

^Well, but that's the funny part... Utada's fans act like she have strong sales cuz she is talented and all that crap, but considering the amount of tie-ins she has, it's easier for the general public to listen to her musics without they going for it than... Ayu or Koda... I mean... U turn ur TV on and while ur r watching ur favorite drama that has a Utada song, u listen to 2 more songs on the comercials... after the drama u go to the movies with ur friends and listen to one more Utada song in the credits....

Ok, she is not putting her face everywhere, but she is putting her music everywhere, and that's marketing..

nono I know lol I just don't think people think about that as much when they talk about marketing.

Which yeah, is a mistake lol

They're always just, oh "well...this artist is here and here and on this show, and in that magazine, and this label is always talking about them, and hikki is no where and she's still selling!" lol

[Kingdom]

if you're going to bash kuu for being an "image" idol, take a look at namie, ayumi, the new string of pop divas... they are all pop idols, which means image plays a big factor. they have the looks, and they have the voices. just because hikki only has the voice, this makes her unique or different?

this thread has gotten so dumb i don't even know why i reply here. it just seems like a reason for the hikki stans to crawl out of the woodwork and bash other artists.

you respect my queen & i'll respect yours. my japanese artist of the decade is kumi. i may not have been around as long as Japanty Times but at least i don't trash talk other idols to make mine look good

[Polyrhythm]

....This thread is getting out of hand. LOL >< I didnt know this would become some sort of battle to the death or something...

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by emiko

nono I know lol I just don't think people think about that as much when they talk about marketing.

Which yeah, is a mistake lol

They're always just, oh "well...this artist is here and here and on this show, and in that magazine, and this label is always talking about them, and hikki is no where and she's still selling!" lol

Hahahah I know that u got it... I was just complementing xD

Here on Brazil we have a singer that pretty much like Hikki, hates performing live and being on TV. She almost never appears on magazines too... But still, her albums sell like hotcakes....

and u know what? I can't remember one single year where she didn't have a strong telenovela tie-in since mid 90s...

[emi♡]

^damn telenovelas?!

that's just gold for those artists lol

[hpg23]

Originally Posted by peanut

if you're going to bash kuu for being an "image" idol, take a look at namie, ayumi, the new string of pop divas... they are all pop idols, which means image plays a big factor. they have the looks, and they have the voices. just because hikki only has the voice, this makes her unique or different?

this thread has gotten so dumb i don't even know why i reply here. it just seems like a reason for the hikki stans to crawl out of the woodwork and bash other artists.

you respect my queen & i'll respect yours. my japanese artist of the decade is kumi. i may not have been around as long as Japanty Times but at least i don't trash talk other idols to make mine look good

you are extremely biased.


No one is bashing no one here, let's be neutral. It's ok if you love Kuu, I do love her too, but we are talking here about musical artistry.

Kuu sure has a wonderful voice, but she doesn't composes. She has written lyrics, of course, but they have not had the impact that other songwriters like Ayu or Utada have had.

Utada composes, sings, plays instruments, writes her stuff, is extremely popular within all age and sex ranges in Japan, has never had a scandal or anything like it, she has been a huge driving force in how J-Pop sounds nowadays and today, she is still able to hit the one million mark, or close to it, with her Japanese albums.

So, as much as that article is not professional, or whatever (and you just sound more biased by calling it "Japanty times"), what the writer talks about Utada is all true. Sure, he didn't need to bash anyone at all, but anyway, as I stated before, Koda has talent, and a lot of it, but her whole success now and before was thanks to a wonderful and very well thought marketing campaign, not to her artistry.

[Tom Punks]

^ Peanut isn't trying to say that Koda > Utada or anything, all he's saying is that Koda Kumi is his favorite for the decade...

[Kingdom]

Originally Posted by Tom Punks

^ Peanut isn't trying to say that Koda > Utada or anything, all he's saying is that Koda Kumi is his favorite for the decade...

lol thank you for being able to read into what i was saying, tom.

hpg... you did not understand my post at all, my friend. but whatever.

[Uemarasan]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

But Hikki is more skillful when it comes to use the words... Ayu's are lyrics from a diary, Hikki's are poetry...

I highly disagree with this. Hikki's lyrics seem like "poetry" on a superficial level because they are "pretty" and use "colorful metaphors", but when you employ close reading you come to realize that her lyrics are closer to children's songs and nursery rhymes than actual poetry for adults. Her lyrics lack the depth of emotion or wisdom that is found in true poetry. It is all surface prettiness. In contrast to that, I find Ayu's lyrics much closer to poetry. They echo a depth of feeling and a heightened intelligence beyond that which Hikki is capable of.

Sorry, but I really dislike it when the word "poetry" is used for something so unqualified for the term. This is true poetry:

http://www.sylviaplath.de/plath/ariel.html

Hikki isn't even close.

[Andrenekoi]

^I'm pretty sure u just atacked my opinion with another opinion