Why I think Ayumi's sales have fallen...

[Nackar_91]

Wow, I never thought this was going to be such a huge discussion. I don't think her work has decreased in quality at all. It has CHANGED, that's for sure. I always notice how, the longer you've been a fan, the more difficult it is for you to accept your favourite artist won't simply be making the same music all her artistisc life. (This isn't true for everyone, of course, but it's just something I've noticed a lot!)

As for her voice. I too think she sang the best around 2003-2004. To be honest, I just plain hate her voice the way it was at the beginning of her career. So high-pitched and squeaky ... it makes it really hard for me to like her songs from that time.

[waterballoon]

About her albums "flowing". Damn when the albums flowed perfectly in RAINBOW and MY STORY, people complain the albums are boring and had too many songs that sound "similar"

Come GUILTY, Rock'n'Roll Circus where the albums don't flow that perfectly, people complain it's not cohesive.

[Not~Yet]

Originally Posted by MidnightGirl

But about Americanized songs, I agree. NEXT LEVEL is an example of Japanese songs being influenced by americans. But this is not necessary BAD. Sparkle is popular between the fans and is good song, at least for me.

NEXT LEVEL was clearly influenced by japanese video games' 8-bit and 16-bit music though.

Honestly, I've never thought "she sounds westernized/americanized". In the end, how different can music even be? Of course she could use some old japanese instruments instead of i.e. piano, guitars and drums and sing only about sakura trees and stuff, but why should her creativity be shut out like that because otherwise she'll just be someone who 'tries to be american'? (I know you didn't say so but I read a few comments like that too.) What if she genuinely just likes poppy electro and hard rock songs (or whatever it is at the time) and doesn't think about appealing to current trends at all? I think it's obvious she's more of an "artist" thinker than "seller" thinker. Just look at her lyrics, the details in her songs, her interviews. It shows, to me, that she really puts herself into it and tries hard to achieve the ideal.

Originally Posted by MidnightGirl

I agree when people say "She lost her touch in songs", since I hate Rock 'n' Roll Circus. I want back LOVEppears, Duty or (miss) understood songs, because I can see originality there.

You see, here's the problem. Did you expect a second LOVEppears, Duty or (miss)understood? Are you still expecting? Well don't, because that'll never happen. She can't re-do those songs as new, she can't change them just a little when she'll just be cheating, and when you wait for something you call just "original" you probably don't know what you mean. Is Sexy Little Things not original to you? That song is not something I've heard before. It definitely isn't something Ayu has done before. I think you probably hate the songs on RnRC because they do not fit your personal tastes, not because they lack originality.

So I'll try to squeeze my point: She can't do something she has already done in order to be original. So of course she'll seek for new directions that she likes, but it doesn't mean that she is not the person she used to be or that she doesn't think her old stuff are good anymore.

Originally Posted by voltron

-- Previously she had a "cool" image, but for a while now she has been pushing this uber-girly image. She's not leading trends the way she once did. Her target audience now is young girls, and she even addresses that musically (i.e. Beautiful Fighters, etc). I think she has fans that have been fans all along, and little girls. She doesn't have a ton of male fans, and she doesn't have the music buying demographic of teenaged kids.

I think this too is a classic case of time turning memories to gold. There have been a ton of times when she's been way more girly than during this "era". HONEY, Angel's Song, Real Me, a lot of her tour/other outfits since the beginning to name a few. I don't find, say, Microphone and DLB PV's girlish in almost any way, same with a lot of songs itself from the album. Also her promotion image for You were.../BALLAD was very rockish and edgy. I actually think she hasn't been that girly for a while. Maybe she was really embracing her womanly side around GUILTY era, but girlish? No, I don't think she's been like that much.
And also about her doing stuff that don't fit her age: a lot of the 30-year olds that I know don't think of themselves as old or appear old. Why should they? I'm not even 20 myself yet but I've always seen 30 as an age which is a "final phase from youth to adulthood" thing. She's not even middle-aged yet.

And lastly about the diva attitude.. Have you guys watched her RnRC TV interviews? To me she couldn't appear more laid back and down-to-earth as she does in those. I admit she has her diva moments, but I don't believe that's all there is to her at all. Hasn't she already proven that to us?

[freedreamer]

^Agree with ur bold parts...and the rest too

[rainydayumi]

i think her sales will go up soon though remember her sales going down and then went back up once My Story was up

[roanmy]

^Oh? I thought the only time in the last... oh... 5 years it went up was when Mirrorcle World was realeased (193K, compared to Glitter / Fated with 144K)?

[voltron]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I would have to disagree about the vocals on some points. I think technically her vocal best was during 2003-ish era (http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...530463gNMKQpsF from AyuReady) where she performed some beautiful renditions of RAINBOW, ASFXX, Tokyo, and Haru yo, koi on MF21. I am.../DOME TOUR era had way too much of that nasal singing where it sounded like she was singing through a respirator or something, and it was just REALLY unattractive to me. I would say that nowadays, her vocals are "good" but not "great" and for the most part, I feel that with the right accompaniment and so on, she can sound beautiful! I feel like people associate her "best" vocals when they were most satisfied with her or something and that skews people's perceptions of her vocals then and now... -sigh-

About her own repetition, I think if you were a creative person, you would understand that it's somewhat difficult to push out material if you are a lyricist / musician, especially if you aren't feeling especially inspired at any given time and are expected to create a record. I would say that her lyrics have always been rather great, but the highest points would be ASFXX and from there, things sort of slowly got "worse" when they weren't really all that bad at all. She writes about things that she feels strongly about, and doesn't stray away from them. Her themes are similar, but they are approached in different ways with each album. I feel like people don't understand that Ayu wrote ASFXX as an album (and LOVEppears through I am... as well, I suppose.) at a point where she still had a lot to say that she couldn't express any other way. (Arguably, she still expresses her emotions through her songs, but it's a different sort of emotion imo) And after she'd said all that she had to say emotionally through her lyrics, what then? She had to find new areas to find inspiration (friends, etc.) but still have the lyrics be "her" and thus, we have lyrics that are very similar, talking about "wings" and "last loves" etc... and I've never really had a problem with this since there's an Ayu song for just about every occasion. I would much rather Ayu write lyrics that she feels a connection to with slightly repetitive elements than something shallow that says nothing at all like many of Namie's lyrics that aren't even penned by her (but I'm not trying to say anything bad about Namie with this, it's just an example. Don't take offense.) or lyrics that talk about "putting lipstick on" for a "night out with your boy"... or something. (RAMBLING RAMBLING.) Okay, now that I'm beginning to see that I'm going in all sorts of directions, I'm going to stop now, haha. (Oh, to add, the sheer number of lyrical works she has is crazy. ONE HUNDRED FIFTY EIGHT SONGS. You're bound to repeat something after that many songs... -falls over-)

I think she was still quite strong in 2003-2004, but I've always thought of that as the time that her voice really started to thin out more. I look to the I Am... period because I think she had the most control over her voice, as well as the largest range. It was also before she turned into the "vibrato-monster" ;-). But, honestly, the differences between I Am... and Rainbow in vocals was quite striking, and the majority of Rainbow was extremely hoarse compared to her past songs. Then it leveled out a bit with Memorial Address & My Story. Now, I don't know that I consider her voice all that good...she just mostly screams, and she has absolutely no range.

Originally Posted by truehappiness

I think her older lyrics are simply more angsty, haha. That's one of the things I see post-I am..., that her lyrics are happier overall pretty much instead of brooding like some depressed teen.

I think that's completely fair to say, but I also think you have to look at the market. Japanese love some sad ballads. When Voyage came out everyone made such a huge deal that it was a "happy" song and so unlike Ayu, and coming off the tails of the }{ single, it was a really successful single. But after that, I honestly do think that people got tired of happy Ayu (in Japan).

Originally Posted by Not~Yet

I think this too is a classic case of time turning memories to gold. There have been a ton of times when she's been way more girly than during this "era". HONEY, Angel's Song, Real Me, a lot of her tour/other outfits since the beginning to name a few. I don't find, say, Microphone and DLB PV's girlish in almost any way, same with a lot of songs itself from the album. Also her promotion image for You were.../BALLAD was very rockish and edgy. I actually think she hasn't been that girly for a while. Maybe she was really embracing her womanly side around GUILTY era, but girlish? No, I don't think she's been like that much.
And also about her doing stuff that don't fit her age: a lot of the 30-year olds that I know don't think of themselves as old or appear old. Why should they? I'm not even 20 myself yet but I've always seen 30 as an age which is a "final phase from youth to adulthood" thing. She's not even middle-aged yet.

I'm not saying she's old at all, by normal standards. But, again, looking at the Japanese music market standard she is. And she's done girly things before, but I mean her personal image, not her tour or PV image. That is where the change has been. She went from really cool, yet accessible fashion, to very expensive, high-class taste with a girly twist. Part of her popularity was built on her image, and it's naive to believe otherwise. Now she's faded into the realm of any other celebrity who can buy nice things, she's not pushing the bar, she's not creating trends, she's just looking beautiful.

[Not~Yet]

^Actually, have you read any of Misa-chan's translations of her early DejiDeji diaries? (or the originals if you can read japanese) She talked about designers and clothes a lot back then already, showed off her nails and stuff like she still does nowadays.


The first DejiDeji (or PolaPola) diary, back in 2000 (translated by Misa-chan) She already mentions Dolce&Gabbana. In the third issue she mentioned Chanel.

I do undestand where you're coming from though. She does use more extravagant clothes in her performances than before, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on how you view it. You could think "Pfft. She's showing off how expensive things she can buy." or you could look at her and think "She's using her clothes like a prop. Cool." or something else. But the point is, things like that are pretty much in the eye of the beholder. When my personal mindset about a lot of things changed I went from example 1 to example 2, lol.

The thing is, to me, it's still her music that counts the most. As long as she isn't all about creating trends, following trends or just something else than the music itself, I won't be bothered anymore. Somebody here said the wisest thing of all, she doesn't need huge popularity, what she deserves is respect.

Btw I do think her image did play a part in her popularity, if you were referring to me. (?)

[voltron]

^ The last bit about her image being part of her popularity wasn't aimed at you, just at some of the other comments in here. And I guess that's the whole point I was trying to make. I remember very early on she surrounded herself with LV items, but it was just different. I'm probably not explaining it well. But think about the trends she started with Leopard Print, Oversized sunglasses, Blonde Hair, Rabbit/Fox Tails (a la evolution), etc. They were things that were trends that people could easily recreate. Now, I think she's very refined and soft, and the "cool-ness" is gone. But I think that's what set her apart from other people. Namie is popular again, and she also has adapted a "cool" image again. This applies to both of them not only in clothing, but in mannerisms. Ayu used to be very shy/insecure/something that came off as very mysterious and ellusive. She's much more outspoken now and a stronger image that will inevitably put some people off. It is, however, more sincere and more "her."

[jbrat2219]

Originally Posted by Not~Yet

You see, here's the problem. Did you expect a second LOVEppears, Duty or (miss)understood? Are you still expecting? Well don't, because that'll never happen. She can't re-do those songs as new, she can't change them just a little when she'll just be cheating, and when you wait for something you call just "original" you probably don't know what you mean. Is Sexy Little Things not original to you? That song is not something I've heard before. It definitely isn't something Ayu has done before. I think you probably hate the songs on RnRC because they do not fit your personal tastes, not because they lack originality.

So I'll try to squeeze my point: She can't do something she has already done in order to be original. So of course she'll seek for new directions that she likes, but it doesn't mean that she is not the person she used to be or that she doesn't think her old stuff are good anymore.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you.

Originally Posted by voltron

I'm not saying she's old at all, by normal standards. But, again, looking at the Japanese music market standard she is. And she's done girly things before, but I mean her personal image, not her tour or PV image. That is where the change has been. She went from really cool, yet accessible fashion, to very expensive, high-class taste with a girly twist. Part of her popularity was built on her image, and it's naive to believe otherwise. Now she's faded into the realm of any other celebrity who can buy nice things, she's not pushing the bar, she's not creating trends, she's just looking beautiful.

When Ayu was pushing bars and creating trends, she was at a different point in her life. She had a different mindset when it came to music, lyrics even fashion. Her fashion has been ever changing from day one. But obviously she decided to push the Diva image probably because she reached Diva status. And probably because she likes "just looking beautiful." There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And if the Japanese don't like it, they don't have to. She's already established herself and she doesn't need to prove anything to anyone anymore. She's not Gaga claiming to be artistic and fashion-forward thinking 24/7. She's just being herself and doing what she wants.

And seriously, what is with everyone's obsession with Ayu repeating herself? It's the MOST hypocritical thing I have ever seen. "I want Ayu to be original, but I want her music to sound like 'insert album here' and I don't want anymore recycling but I want her tour to be like 'insert concert here.' I want her to go back to this go back to that but at the same time create something completely new I've never seen or heard before." I have to say it's quite ridiculous. No, you don't have to like everything. Yes, it's silly and blind to love everything. But for the love of Ayu, can we PLEASE listen to her advice and "don't look back." Her past is the past, her present is now and her future is whatever she makes it. Come along for the ride or hop of the train, but we ain't got no time machine so don't whine.

Spoiler:

I know I sound serious but I couldn't be more calm right now lol.

[Andrenekoi]

^I love you so much xD

[asmAyumi1992]

^^Wow, you're the best *clapping hands*

[Eewyi]

When I readed these I really can`t agree with these points.
I honestly can`t see the fact why most people here are like it`s the end of the world if Ayu is "not" selling well.
When I readed the post it made me angry. Honestly it looked like that the people are only interested in numbers of the sold CD`s.
Of course it`s nice if artist you love is selling well generally.
But it`s not the main thing! I don`t honestly care if Ayu sells 1 million or 500 copies. I don`t care if she isn`t #1 in the Oricon charts.

What I care about is the music. I love Ayus music. As long as I like the stuff she makes I`m all happy. That`s enough to me.

And you must see the facts that she is still selling well, and that se has perfomed 12 full years now. It`s just impossible [and really really stressful to the artist itself] to be the most selling solo artist in Japan all the time. [Or anywhere else]
And Ayu is like Madonna: She likes to try new musical styles. That`s why she has many types of songs and genres. That can be a risk to overall sales of the album, but I think it`s really respectable that she is able to take those risks, even though that can be a risk to the sales.

I heard many artists and many of them actually say that they hate those times when their popularity is over the top: it`s really stresfull. I remember seen one of the documents about Ayu where she actually says that she might want to stop her career, because of the overall superpopularity [this was filmed 2001].

I have so many things to say, but I know it`s not necessary. Sadly I can`t change other`s opinions, but at least I can say what`s mine.

And last thing: I just loved NEXT LEVEL. It`s one of my favorite Ayu albums. And actually, my least favorite is I am...
And those sales? Well looks like they are twisted. I actually like the CD with has lowest overall sales. And don`t like so much of that what is one of the most sold one.
Is that odd? I don`t think so.

I`m waiting RnC impatiently!

Don`t look the numbers. Look at Ayu instead.

[Crystal_Ageha]

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

...And seriously, what is with everyone's obsession with Ayu repeating herself? It's the MOST hypocritical thing I have ever seen. "I want Ayu to be original, but I want her music to sound like 'insert album here' and I don't want anymore recycling but I want her tour to be like 'insert concert here.' I want her to go back to this go back to that but at the same time create something completely new I've never seen or heard before." I have to say it's quite ridiculous. No, you don't have to like everything. Yes, it's silly and blind to love everything. But for the love of Ayu, can we PLEASE listen to her advice and "don't look back." Her past is the past, her present is now and her future is whatever she makes it. Come along for the ride or hop of the train, but we ain't got no time machine so don't whine.

Spoiler:

I know I sound serious but I couldn't be more calm right now lol.

Oh my gosh, one of the best posts I've seen in a while, hah! Go, Brat!!
Seriously, it makes me sooo mad how some people can't get past I am... or MY STORY or whatever, yet they blow a ****ing gasket if they see lyrics that even slightly resemble lyrics from, say, Moments... Ironic, right? If you love it so much, why can't you fall in love with something that reminds you of it? What? You say you want to move on...? Then DO IT!

And really, Ayu doesn't reuse **** that much, be it lyrics or costumes or whatever. Honestly, considering all she's done and how long she's been around, she could easily be directly repeating things three times over now. But even the ideas she does use again, she makes them different the next time around. Like Don't look back's, PV, for example. It's extremely similar to ourselves, but at the same time, it's something all its own, no doubt.
That's actually another thing I love so much about her. She does so many things, and nearly everything is great. And when she has to take inspiration from herself or from something she's already done, she makes sure not to disappoint. Well, that's how I feel, at least... But either way, whether you're happy about what she's done or not, you need to move past it. If you like it, great! Enjoy it, and then move on to the next era when the time comes. If not, take a break from Ayu, or what ever you have to do to make yourself feel better, hah. No need to constantly repeat yourself, about how you think Ayumi is doing nothing but recycling and isn't putting out good things - or even original things - any longer. :\

[voltron]

Originally Posted by jbrat2219

When Ayu was pushing bars and creating trends, she was at a different point in her life. She had a different mindset when it came to music, lyrics even fashion. Her fashion has been ever changing from day one. But obviously she decided to push the Diva image probably because she reached Diva status. And probably because she likes "just looking beautiful." There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And if the Japanese don't like it, they don't have to. She's already established herself and she doesn't need to prove anything to anyone anymore. She's not Gaga claiming to be artistic and fashion-forward thinking 24/7. She's just being herself and doing what she wants.

And I don't want anyone thinking that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that! All I'm trying to say is that it has been a contributing factor in her declining popularity in Japan--just as a statement of what is, no judgement implied one way or another.

The only changes that bother me are her deteriorating voice (which I think she can prevent and fix, but she doesn't seem to take care of it properly) and some song choices that I don't quite agree with (whether it be musically unappealing to me, lyrically unappealing to me, etc.).

[HELVENEUE]

Originally Posted by identity

"But we can truly see why Namie is back in the limelight: her songs are not Americanized."

You lost me there. The reason I don't like a lot of Namie's new music is because it's wayy too americanized. I still don't think ayu's music is very americanized at all, and that's why I love it.

Hahah, you lost me too. but I disagree on ayu as well, I think her songs have some american flavor, and I honestly don't see why it's a bad thing.

I read your whole post, I thought you had a very strong opinion, and I respect that.

Lemme say this, the reason I personally feel that her sales are low is because she's diluted the quality of her albums with the frequency of her releases. I'm not saying her albums suck, Rock'n'Roll Circus and NEXT LEVEL are good, but let's take Namie Amuro, again her album release are more sporadic, therefore an album release by her is big deal as it's a more coveted event, a more exciting release. Utada Hikaru also, her albums feel like major pieces of work due to the time the audience presumes were spent in the making. Even if that isn't the case, time between albums really can enrich the experience, making the album more powerful (and marketable!)

Where as it's kinda hard to be excited about an ayumi hamasaki album 'cuz ***** releases one every year

[truehappiness]

If you flip that argument over and look at it from a different perspective, she puts out amazing work without spending all of the time that Utada Hikaru or Namie Amuro spend, haha. So... -shrug-

Comparison of the three:
Namie Amuro - 9 studio albums, 4 compilation albums, 36 singles (1995 - 2010) - 32,550,237
Utada - 8 studio albums, 1 compilation album, 27 singles (1998 - 2010) - 37,772,698 (Japan only)
Ayumi Hamasaki - 11 studio albums, 4 compilation albums, 1 EP, 47 singles (1998 - 2010) - 50,453,743

I would argue that Utada Hikaru's works have a lot of time spent on them, but they really aren't all that great. There are some nice songs here and there, but blah at stuff like "Poppin'" and such. This is compared to Ayu who has for the most part, music where I personally love almost every track and she releases quite frequently.

But eh, haha.

[HELVENEUE]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

If you flip that argument over and look at it from a different perspective, she puts out amazing work without spending all of the time that Utada Hikaru spends, haha. So... -shrug-

What I'm saying is i feel she needs to let her albums marinate a little. let them sink in. Release an album that so good that you won't feel the need to release another one for years.

I mean what good has it really done her to have this crazy release schedule? I love ayu but Utada Hikaru has sold more records (or roughly the same amount) than ayumi hamasaki and she's done it in half the releases.

[truehappiness]

I love ayu but Utada Hikaru has sold more records (or roughly the same amount) than ayumi hamasaki and she's done it in half the releases.

Utada Hikaru is vastly overrated in Japan, I would say. She could release a 4 track mini-album and it'd sell a million. She's good, but not that good. Her total in Japan is about 13 million lower than Ayu's, it seems. It'd be depressing if Ayu had more works and sold WAY less like a certain artist though, haha.

Utada's studio album sales average is rather high though.

Average Utada album sales: about 2,707,090
Average Ayumi album sales: about 1,316,760

What I'm saying is i feel she needs to let her albums marinate a little. let them sink in. Release an album that so good that you won't feel the need to release another one for years.

Well, most of Ayu's albums are growers where about a year later you realize it's amazing when that "Oh!" moment happens. I think she loves to put out new music, and with Rock'n'Roll Circus, it really shows that she's trying to step up her game after not having all that much time to produce Secret/GUILTY/NEXT LEVEL. If she loves what she's doing, why should she slow down/take 2-3 years to make an album if all most people are going to do is go crazy?

Most people would probably want her to do an album so amazing it'd make your ears explode if it meant waiting 3 years, but I don't think the Japanese record industry is that forgiving.

[HELVENEUE]

Originally Posted by truehappiness

Utada Hikaru is vastly overrated in Japan, I would say. She could release a 4 track mini-album and it'd sell a million. She's good, but not that good.



Well, most of Ayu's albums are growers where about a year later you realize it's amazing when that "Oh!" moment happens. I think she loves to put out new music, and with Rock'n'Roll Circus, it really shows that she's trying to step up her game after not having all that much time to produce Secret/GUILTY/NEXT LEVEL. If she loves what she's doing, why should she slow down/take 2-3 years to make an album if all most people are going to do is go crazy?

Most people would probably want her to do an album so amazing it'd make your ears explode if it meant waiting 3 years, but I don't think the Japanese record industry is that forgiving.

I know, that Oh! moment. but sometimes you can't even appreciate an album/the oh moment never comes because she's already released something else by then.

I just want to understand why she feels the need to release so frequently. I hope it's not because she thinks that what she must do to remain relevant. I hope it's because she loves her craft.

EDIT: how you gonna edit your posts after I reply? That's cheating. GURL BYE>
EDIT2: btw I really enjoyed this interaction. I would post more often if it was like this~