How messy was the divorce?

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by maikaru

Are you guys serious about what you're saying? LOL.

She is the richest, most powerful female artist in the Asian sphere. She still sells out arenas, has the largest amount of CD sales of any female artist in Japan ever, and just by tweeting to the Softbank CEO she got a coveted spot on a Softbank CM, which is a pretty big deal. There is not one other female singer in Japan who holds as much power as she does in her own company and the music industry in Japan, the second largest in the world.

Using someone doesn't mean using them for fame. Most of the time someone uses someone else for money. After they got together, he flew on one of the most expensive, private first class airplane in the entire world. He went here, went there, and it's not a mistake to assume she bought him a LOT of things. He got Super Manny out of it, and he got Music Video appearances out of it... all of them which made him money. And obviously his career in America wasn't working, so it could have been time for him to try to second biggest entertainment industry in the world. And I'm sorry? What did Ayu get out of the entire thing? A scandal which caused her to be on the front page of Yahoo Japan (The most popular website in Japan) being cast in a very bad light and a diminished image. Yeah, she really used him, didn't she.

And P.S. Leslie isn't that famous and or big? Okay. Well, name me several photographers off the top of your head who are "famous" and "big?" who work with celebrities? That bit about Lady Gaga made me laugh. Lady Gaga is one of the most popular artists in the entire world. Having someone regularly allowed to photograph her for magazines and even make a Super Lady Gaga book constitutes someone who has a lot of power behind the scenes. And I invite you to go look at his website. He regularly features high profile fashion models and actresses. What you guys see as "famous" and "popular" doesn't translate to the pantheon of "famous" and "popular" people in the fashion and photography industry. I don't even like him, but I have to admit that he is highly involved in the fashion industry in Asia.

And your image of Ayu being this power hungry spoiled princess makes me laugh so much... I don't even know what to say to that, only okay. That's your prerogative. I think she's shown herself to be exactly the opposite of that, and has stated regularly that while she has the image of a party girl, she's the exact opposite, she hates that. But okay.

lmao. If I had fans like you guys, I wouldn't need antis.

Chill! Calm down! You are taking this too personal, it's not even healthy

Nobody (but Mannie's friend, LOL) said Ayu is an evil *****, just that the same assumptions we can have about Mannie, we can have about her, considering we don't know **** about neither besides what they show us.

Every assumption we make about Ayu or Mannie regarding their marriage and the reasons why they got together and divorced are just that... assumptions based on pretty much nothing. Don't be so irrational.

[emi♡]

I'm going to marry an Asian superstar so I can fly in the most expensive, first class, private plane ever

And yey for Leslie being big in Asia. That doesn't help Mannie here at home except to expand his model portfolio a bit. And it doesn't seem to be helping him all that much since he hasn't really done anything.

And, I think I even named a really famous photographer in my last post O_o


Ayu's scandal was her own damn fault. She grew up in Japan. She's lived there. She's had Avex and the media breathing down her neck since forever.

If she didn't know what marrying a foreigner was going to do to her image, she's stupid.

I don't think anyone's saying that they absolutely think ayu's a "spoiled brat *****". People are just discussing the fact that it was brought up.


And Avex might have power over Japan...but unless they start wanting to fund and produce things over here in hollywood...their power really doesn't mean anything for Mannie...just like leslie's.

[jewelbox]

Imo it's kinda funny that people brought things up which Ayu has said many many years ago? And based on that people say that they know her? Do you really think she's the same person when she was during 2001 or even 2007? Things can change and I wouldn't be surprised if she really is difficult personality to date.
For 14 years she has lived this superstar life, so she has used to get what she wants. Maybe she really sometimes gets mad when things don't go like she's planned..?
I'm a fan, but I don't think her as a pure, flawless god.
And IF Mannie used her to get famous (LOL...) then Ayu Definitely used Mannie to sell Lovesongs and Party Queen.

[ImpactBreaker]

Originally Posted by emi♡

I'm going to marry an Asian superstar so I can fly in the most expensive, first class, private plane ever

And yey for Leslie being big in Asia. That doesn't help Mannie here at home except to expand his model portfolio a bit. And it doesn't seem to be helping him all that much since he hasn't really done anything.

And, I think I even named a really famous photographer in my last post O_o


Ayu's scandal was her own damn fault. She grew up in Japan. She's lived there. She's had Avex and the media breathing down her neck since forever.

If she didn't know what marrying a foreigner was going to do to her image, she's stupid.

I don't think anyone's saying that they absolutely think ayu's a "spoiled brat *****". People are just discussing the fact that it was brought up.


And Avex might have power over Japan...but unless they start wanting to fund and produce things over here in hollywood...their power really doesn't mean anything for Mannie...just like leslie's.

Their power might not mean anything for mannie becoming famous in US, but going out with some other country superstar doesn't mean you won't be able to get advantage of a life of richness and extra advantages. Of course, nobody can pass judgement because the truth will most likely never been known for the real motive of their wedding, but something's definitely off if you both speak different languages and decide to marry after a month knowing each other. Whether there was secondary interest from both parts, will probably never be known.

I think maikaru is being sensitive because of how the thread in an ayu forum turned from "Mannie being an ass" to a turn of "ayu did a disgusting thing for putting some burn out picture of her last relationship into a PV". I personally don't se much difference into the ones who makes assumption that mannie was rude and his post was uncalled for, for those making assumptions that ayu was rude for putting some burned out picture in a PV, and confirming without a source that she got no permission to do that. All are assumptions that lack a solid confirmation.

[happiholic★]

Originally Posted by emi♡

I'm going to marry an Asian superstar so I can fly in the most expensive, first class, private plane ever

And yey for Leslie being big in Asia. That doesn't help Mannie here at home except to expand his model portfolio a bit. And it doesn't seem to be helping him all that much since he hasn't really done anything.

And, I think I even named a really famous photographer in my last post O_o


Ayu's scandal was her own damn fault. She grew up in Japan. She's lived there. She's had Avex and the media breathing down her neck since forever.

If she didn't know what marrying a foreigner was going to do to her image, she's stupid.

I don't think anyone's saying that they absolutely think ayu's a "spoiled brat *****". People are just discussing the fact that it was brought up.


And Avex might have power over Japan...but unless they start wanting to fund and produce things over here in hollywood...their power really doesn't mean anything for Mannie...just like leslie's.

Please, make a SUPER EMI♡, too!

[emi♡]

^ collab?

@impact: well of course, but I dont think that those extra things are all THAT worth it to Mannie. He seemed to be doing just fine before Ayu. And he still travels and stuff and has his own advantages with his friends in the LA scene

All speculation though.

And her picture is a lot different, because it's actually obvious it was about her relationship. I don't think it was really ever about the permission lol

Mannie's isnt really that obvious. It might have been completely harmless for all we know. Nor is it as public.

[tetsuo69]

Originally Posted by maikaru

Are you guys serious about what you're saying? LOL.

She is the richest, most powerful female artist in the Asian sphere. She still sells out arenas, has the largest amount of CD sales of any female artist in Japan ever, and just by tweeting to the Softbank CEO she got a coveted spot on a Softbank CM, which is a pretty big deal. There is not one other female singer in Japan who holds as much power as she does in her own company and the music industry in Japan, the second largest in the world.

Using someone doesn't mean using them for fame. Most of the time someone uses someone else for money. After they got together, he flew on one of the most expensive, private first class airplane in the entire world. He went here, went there, and it's not a mistake to assume she bought him a LOT of things. He got Super Manny out of it, and he got Music Video appearances out of it... all of them which made him money. And obviously his career in America wasn't working, so it could have been time for him to try to second biggest entertainment industry in the world. And I'm sorry? What did Ayu get out of the entire thing? A scandal which caused her to be on the front page of Yahoo Japan (The most popular website in Japan) being cast in a very bad light and a diminished image. Yeah, she really used him, didn't she.

And P.S. Leslie isn't that famous and or big? Okay. Well, name me several photographers off the top of your head who are "famous" and "big?" who work with celebrities? That bit about Lady Gaga made me laugh. Lady Gaga is one of the most popular artists in the entire world. Having someone regularly allowed to photograph her for magazines and even make a Super Lady Gaga book constitutes someone who has a lot of power behind the scenes. And I invite you to go look at his website. He regularly features high profile fashion models and actresses. What you guys see as "famous" and "popular" doesn't translate to the pantheon of "famous" and "popular" people in the fashion and photography industry. I don't even like him, but I have to admit that he is highly involved in the fashion industry in Asia.

And your image of Ayu being this power hungry spoiled princess makes me laugh so much... I don't even know what to say to that, only okay. That's your prerogative. I think she's shown herself to be exactly the opposite of that, and has stated regularly that while she has the image of a party girl, she's the exact opposite, she hates that. But okay.

lmao. If I had fans like you guys, I wouldn't need antis.

+1

i stop liking ayu as much as i did b4 but i still wouldn't put her down like some people in here. my advise to you would be to just ignore the negative comments that bother you, by now you should had notice the people"users" that are often saying negative things in this forum. i spoted a few while reading this thread. was it wrong for using a picture from a music video he was paid already for being in it ? i would say no. thats business in my opinion.

[RayJason]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

I'm sure he will cry tears of blood once he seens it

Well, imo Mannie IS an attention *****, so every unfriended friend, might hurt him?

And I also agree partly agree with maikaru. I can't stand it that people actually said that ayu is (not might, but IS) a psycho because Mannie said so. I get it that we don't know much about her personality off-screen, but calling her a psycho because of that stupid meme?

Okay, now I'm running out of this thread, before I get kamehameha'd.

[emi♡]

you know, you guys wouldn't get kamehameha'd if you had proof

Go back and name names of all the people who said she was actually psycho and meant it :/

As far as I'm concerned, most people have either said that they could see the possibility, or were completely kidding.

And anyway, anyone who says Ayu is a psycho just because of a meme, that might not even be about her, is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be listened to and people should just ignore them...like most have.

we had totally moved on from this subject

[RayJason]

Eeeeeek sorry for bringing it up again!! But it's really true though, there where a few people calling ayu psycho because of that meme. It was on here, last.fm and even some blogs. But yeah it is ridiculous to say that.

[ayu_ready?]

I don't get people defending him. afer his friend's pathetic 'defending' attempt,lol, I can't even
let Mika John or JUNO or whatever tell everyone that Mannie is bla-bla-bla

[*Petit*]

under the right amount of stress and distress we all turn into psychos.

[Suteisi]

I haven't seen anyone call Ayu psycho in this thread, RayJason. I think you're jumping to conclusion or are misinterpreting some people's comments.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people would become "spoiled brats" if they had Ayu's fame and money. I'm not saying it's wrong, and I love and support Ayu with all my heart, I was just saying that I could see it being true, that she would get pissy when things don't go her way. I know I do and feel that way sometimes, when I plan things and they don't go according to plan, it's a very frustrating feeling. It's also very human. And Ayu in the end, is only human.

[SummonerXI]

I think Mannie deleted the post.

Anyway, reading this thread has welled up a lot of emotion inside me, someone who really looks up to Ayu because she seems so different from typical celebs. She's human, and of course she will have human slip-ups every once in a while. I believe she was naive and passionate when going into this relationship, that she wasn't even thinking clearly. I don't believe she outright used him to sell her albums or her tour. Ayu has just always been brutally honest, and if it's anything she's selling, it's her true, honest feelings. And some of those feelings have to do with Mannie, which is inevitable. I am going to keep supporting Ayu because I believe in her and her music

Personally, I'm glad she realized her mistakes earlier than later. 10 years from now would have been a worse time to realize she made a mistake.

Just my two cents.

Also, for people wondering about the photograph in return road. That picture was taken specifically for Love Songs, and any work Mannie did for the videos he starred in becomes the copyrighted property of Ayumi and Avex, which I'm sure was stated in the contracts he signed when he got hired to appear in the videos. It's a legal thing called "release" which can be read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_release .

Releases are routinely used by photographers, in film production, by documentary filmmakers, or by radio and music producers when they photograph, film, video or record the voice or performance of individuals to be sure that the person consents or will not later object to the material being used for whatever purpose the releasee (or anyone they may assign the release rights to) wishes.

She doesn't need his permission to use it again.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by RayJason

Well, imo Mannie IS an attention *****, so every unfriended friend, might hurt him?

And I also agree partly agree with maikaru. I can't stand it that people actually said that ayu is (not might, but IS) a psycho because Mannie said so. I get it that we don't know much about her personality off-screen, but calling her a psycho because of that stupid meme?

Okay, now I'm running out of this thread, before I get kamehameha'd.

This is your problem, u still mistake ur opinion for facts. Over and over and over and over...

And actually, Emiko's idea would be pretty funny... If all that evil members called Ayu a psycho, it would be nice if u listed them

[RayJason]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

This is your problem, u still mistake ur opinion for facts. Over and over and over and over...

If all that evil members called Ayu a psycho, it would be nice if u listed them

You probably missed the "imo" = IN MY OPINION. Damn the "imo" isn't even that hard to miss, you even marked it bold.......... If I think of Mannie as an attention *****, then it's my opinion, I won't call him like that for a fact, ever unless I can justify it. --------- I can however call him like that for a fact now, because he was begging for attention. What else are you after when you post such a thing? You're not making friends with that or something, just attracting LOADS and LOADS attention from the left-over ayu stans / ayu fans.... It's so obvious to be honest. Maybe he needed support for his heartbreak and demanded it like that??? I don't know, You don't know, nobody knows. For now, how I feel is 'right' for me. It was bound to happen that he would cause a commotion with that picture. This is from my point of view, no need to try and correct it! I have different standards. I don't find it respectful at all, to call any of the people you have been intimate with 'psycho', even worse publicly saying that. And I find it astonishing that people are defending Mannie for that. Not everyone has the same standards as me, and go on thinking that it's 100% normal and respectful to publicly call your exes psycho... Whatever, their cases. There's no wrong about this, there might be no right.

And maybe no one in here said that ayu IS a psycho because Mannie says so, but it has been said on several other places, and what you are doing is MISINTERPRETING what I said as being on this forum only. I never even said forum-only, and no one mentioned 'evil members' either, wtf .
It appears that no one, said that ayu's a psycho for a fact, on this forum? If that's so (I doubt it but whatever), then please, let me wholeheartedly excuse myself for making this statement: "It was on here..." This doesn't take away that it HAS been said on other sites.

//edit// This was my last rant / mini-essay about Mannie.

[happiholic★]

Originally Posted by SummonerXI

I think Mannie deleted the post.

Anyway, reading this thread has welled up a lot of emotion inside me, someone who really looks up to Ayu because she seems so different from typical celebs. She's human, and of course she will have human slip-ups every once in a while. I believe she was naive and passionate when going into this relationship, that she wasn't even thinking clearly. I don't believe she outright used him to sell her albums or her tour. Ayu has just always been brutally honest, and if it's anything she's selling, it's her true, honest feelings. And some of those feelings have to do with Mannie, which is inevitable. I am going to keep supporting Ayu because I believe in her and her music

Personally, I'm glad she realized her mistakes earlier than later. 10 years from now would have been a worse time to realize she made a mistake.

Just my two cents.

Also, for people wondering about the photograph in return road. That picture was taken specifically for Love Songs, and any work Mannie did for the videos he starred in becomes the copyrighted property of Ayumi and Avex, which I'm sure was stated in the contracts he signed when he got hired to appear in the videos. It's a legal thing called "release" which can be read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_release .



She doesn't need his permission to use it again.

As emi said before, I don't think its a case of if she's legally allowed to use the picture, just the fact that she did. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right in some people's minds. Its a matter of opinion, of course.

Originally Posted by RayJason

You probably missed the "imo" = IN MY OPINION. Damn the "imo" isn't even that hard to miss, you even marked it bold.......... If I think of Mannie as an attention *****, then it's my opinion, I won't call him like that for a fact, ever unless I can justify it. --------- I can however call him like that for a fact now, because he was begging for attention. What else are you after when you post such a thing? You're not making friends with that or something, just attracting LOADS and LOADS attention from the left-over ayu stans / ayu fans.... It's so obvious to be honest. Maybe he needed support for his heartbreak and demanded it like that??? I don't know, You don't know, nobody knows. For now, how I feel is 'right' for me. It was bound to happen that he would cause a commotion with that picture. This is from my point of view, no need to try and correct it!

And maybe no one in here said that ayu IS a psycho because Mannie says so, but it has been said on several other places, and what you are doing is MISINTERPRETING what I said as being on this forum only. I never even said forum-only, and no one mentioned 'evil members' either, wtf .
It appears that no one, said that ayu's a psycho for a fact, on this forum? If that's so (I doubt it but whatever), then please, let me wholeheartedly excuse myself for making this statement: "It was on here..." This doesn't take away that it HAS been said on other sites.

//edit//

I have to ask, why even bother saying that people here on AHS said that Ayu is psycho, if what you really meant was that people were saying it on other sites? It just makes your whole argument look invalid. And really, you can't bring what you've seen on other sites into this argument. It doesn't really make sense if other members haven't seen it for themselves. Just like someone else claimed that Mannie has bashed Ayu every chance he's had, without posting any proof it just doesn't make any sense, just like your claims that people here have said Ayu is psycho and that people elsewhere have as well.

[RayJason]

Originally Posted by happiholic★

I have to ask, why even bother saying that people here on AHS said that Ayu is psycho, if what you really meant was that people were saying it on other sites? It just makes your whole argument look invalid. And really, you can't bring what you've seen on other sites into this argument. It doesn't really make sense if other members haven't seen it for themselves. Just like someone else claimed that Mannie has bashed Ayu every chance he's had, without posting any proof it just doesn't make any sense, just like your claims that people here have said Ayu is psycho and that people elsewhere have as well.

Well, the first post I made was about 'how I couldn't stand people who say that ayu's psycho because Mannie said so' *note how i am not addressing AHS here*. Then I replied to another post, and rushed and accidentally put in the "It was on here, last.fm and even some blogs.". My stupid mistake.

And I think that it's all related. What has been said about ayu's divorce + psycho e-card fits perfectly into this thread even though they're from external sites. + This argument partly exists out of assuming that I was talking about the forum-only, and appears to be about 'evil members' or something... Andrenekoi quoted my first reply wherein I never said anything about the forum in general. ~

This is going way too far, and lasts way too long...

[ayu_ready?]

Originally Posted by SummonerXI

I think Mannie deleted the post.

we won. and I'm content

[Lady_Eowyn]

Originally Posted by Deibel

As others said before, Ayu only shows to us what she wants us to see from her, so it's quite difficult to know "her" (real) truth. Also, she would be nothing without Ayumi Hamasaki, her masterpiece. She's rich and famous, and she loves her status, being admired and even her need to have bodyguards. She is made for the stage, for the fans, for 'evolution' and 'Boys & Girls'. That's why she never will stop singing; because if she isn't Ayumi Hamasaki anymore, she would be nothing. For that reason, it's possible that we may have never seen the real ayu til now. Who knows! Only her.

It's because of this fact that I think that it's true that she were crying in her hotel room and all that. I actually can imagine her depressed and sad, hidden in her own world. (It's very ayu-ish, can't negate it! xD)

Also, Mannie is the only person in this story who knows more from her. He wasn't an ayu fan before, so he were free to this love that we have for her.. I mean, to him, she were only a pretty girl, a singer in her country, yeah.. but a "nobody" in LA. A normal (and glamurous) girl. I think that this fact it's really important at time to give him and his version some credibility and support.

As for his friend.. well, he's defending Mannie, and by reading his post, I can see that Mannie doesn't want him to say such things. But maybe that post is the text that better talks about the real Ayu, by far. Perhaps it's exagerated, but even so.. I can't do nothing but believe it.

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

And I also believe both of them have the right to express themselves the way they want about it... some ways of doing so may be imature, cruel, selfish or just of poor taste, but it's not like people that recently went though a divorce or a major heartbreak are among the most reasonble on the world but if we are going to judge one, we should judge the other too...

Also, I don't think anybody believed Mannie's friend post was the real way things happened... People just found it funny and that it may be somewhat accurate on some parts (as I believe people's feelings tend to be a little more complex than what he said ).

I really like your post, you pretty much wrote what i wanted to say.

Originally Posted by maikaru

There is no way in the world that Ayu wanted to be treating like a celebrity and a superstar, because it would contradict what she said before in many interviews.

She said she misses being able to go out into the world and walk around like a real person, like going to Shibuya 109 or shopping market. I honestly don't think she's that naive to think that she would be treated like Angelina Jolie or Megan Fox around LA, because she's been there loads of times before. She KNEW how she would be treated. It wouldn't come as a surprise, so that comment is sooo negated by the sheer fact of common sense. Ayumi would have to be a damn idiot to think the way that guy was saying she thought. Some how, I can't imagine her going to LA or New York, and every time spending all of her time in the hotel room crying. LMAO what a joke.

By the way Ayumi conducts herself in business and behind the scenes, I honestly find it hard to believe that she is who that idiot portrays her to be. In interviews or behind the scenes videos, she's always very professional, calm, and reserved. She plans things out, takes control, and seems like a true business woman. And we all know she's a horrible actress, so I don't think that's all an act.

Judging by the routines at Hotel Love Songs, and the content of the scenes, it does look like a portrayal that Manny cheated on her. I wouldn't be surprised anyways, because they were apart for so long, and it seems like only one of them in the relationship was too busy to have a life... LOL. And since she says everything she portrays comes from a true story or a true happening...

Yeah, I pretty much hate Manny. He's an idiot and insensitive. You don't go posting that stupid stuff on your Facebook right after your divorce, no matter how angry or upset or jealous you are. It's bad form, and it's a sign of a child. He's no gentleman, and he has no manners. The tour scenes for Ayu are artistic, and portrays what the song needs to portray. That MEME he posted on his facebook is stupid and childish, and there is NO WAY anyone could mistake that for anything but a sad attempt at pinning blame where blame shouldn't be placed. If he could, I bet he'd probably sell all the information about their lives together to the Japanese media if he could. Like, come on, he's a model who married a superstar who in turn got to have a book produced by one of the most famous photographers in the world.

Yeah, he wasn't using her at all.

Relax sweetheart.

I'm sorry hon but with all due respect you have no idea why he made that comment. actually, he didn't even write it. Tons of people here have said we don't know the reasons behind the break up, and i'm sorry also to take ayu off your altar but she's human too, and that's the grace of publicity. Go with any publicist he/she will say all artists always will show a polished, perfect version of ther actual persona, that's what artists do, and i do believe ayu is no exception. And as far as we know she broke up with him. I've been thru that (someone i loved broke up with me) and it hurts like shi-t. Yes, it wasn't the smartest comment ever, but be certain that he wouldn't make such comments if he didn't feel love for ayu.

Honestly, i don't think the post the friend made is fake. This describes quite accurately how a superstar acts. Money and fame should give you freedom to choose, but unfortunately it ends up being the opposite because it makes you less and less capable to adapt yourself to situations like this one. You are used to go everywhere and get special treatment and lots of fools to tell you "amen" to everything you say, and then you move on and you have to be more flexible and accept things you don't like or wish to be different. that's what i meant when i said money and fame turn up against you. Certainly that should have been hard for her.