Lets vent about ayu?/why did your fandom decrease

[Coelacanth]

This thread is the perfect example of fans looking at the past through rose-colored lenses.

If you think recent lyrics in Sweet scar, petal, and BRILLANTE are just about banal romantic love, then you're really missing out on a lot!

I believe her lyrics are profound as always. Sadly, they've been overshadowed by the 'antics' in her persona life, poorly executed PVs/image, and schmaltzy acting in stage performances with her lead male dancers.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

This thread is the perfect example of fans looking at the past through rose-colored lenses.

If you think recent lyrics in Sweet scar, petal, and BRILLANTE are just about banal romantic love, then you're really missing out on a lot!

I believe her lyrics are profound as always. Sadly, they've been overshadowed by the 'antics' in her persona life, poorly executed PVs/image, and schmaltzy acting in stage performances with her lead male dancers.

you know, I think things like lyrics are subjective. i can't say you're wrong, just like how you can't say I'm right. we each have our own opinions on her lyrics, and that's what makes reading the forum fun sometimes.

I'd have to say though that her recent lyrics spell out romantic love a lot more blatantly than the old lyrics. Memorial address for example, could very well be interpreted as romantic love, but you can't really say that either if you read them again, because there are lines that point to a certain other kind of love.

of course in her older works she also had many songs that were written specifically for romance: appears, End roll, monochrome, LOVE ~Destiny~, Far away, Voyage, Dearest etc... but in the past while I could personally think they're for romantic love, the context of the lyrics as well as the way they were written put many questions. you can really think of them as for any kind of love, because the settings in which the lyrics were placed in are all seemingly generic and abstract.

let's take one of your examples, petal, vs one of mine, End roll.

in petal she cites peeling off the petals of a flower in a typical, "he loves me, he loves me not" manner as a main theme in the chorus, while in End roll, a strong emphasis of "you go your way and i'll go mine" is present. To the layman, if you take the context of both of these settings, it's clear which one indicates romantic love even more.

of course I get what you mean... like in petal, when she writes in the verses about observation to a "normal flower along the street", which brings me back to Hana in the ASFxx album, you can't deny the central theme of "petal" is "He loves me, he loves me not... can I take that risk?". In older songs, it's slightly more challenging to do so.

and that's why some people feel the lyrics are a little lackluster these days (I don't). I used to quote her lyrics on my blog and my Facebook. back then it was a little hard to just pull a stanza because reading it alone, not every song was referring to romantic love... that's the kind of challenge I was referring to - you can't say for sure what she means, there's an enigma that's charming and alluring. she still has it in her now I believe (Angel is a good song on abstract love)... but we can't force people to see that, but we can't deny her older works were just slightly better in putting this "Love" concept on a more abstract and mysterious context than say, from Rock'n'Roll Circus onwards.

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by waterballoon

girl you delusional?

Love songs: MOON, sending mail, Last angel, Virgin Road, November, blossom.. romantic love. Not sure about Sweet Season but it feels more nostalgic than romantic.

Party Queen: call, Letter (some argue it's about Max but solely lyrically Letter is referring to romantic love), Tell me why, the next LOVE (lamenting about the lack of romantic love), Return Road.. romantic love.

YOU are delusional. Or didn't read the lyrics. Or both.

sending mail is another of her songs about suffering for not being forgiven, she has tons of that through her discography. Virgin Road is about married, but the focus isn't on her marriage, is on the dialogue with her mother. She herself said it was an answer song to A Song for xx. Blossom is her summer song about never becoming an adult, she also have released those during her whole career.

Letter is about HERSELF (and yeap, she confirmed that on an interview), unless is a song about masturbation (while drunk and throwing her life way), it has nothing to do with romance. the next LOVE is far more about her cynicism concerning relationships than it is about romantic love. Return Road is about her divorce, you can reduce that to "romantic love", but really? It's not like that didn't happen, or didn't caused her any pain.

Since Rock'n'Roll Circus she is dealing with some pretty mature subjects... alcoholism (Party queen, Letter), divorce (Return Road), the failure of her family (Eyes, Smoke, Magic), her deafness (count down), her relationship with her mother (Virgin Road), her public image (Wake me up, Ivy, Beloved), the actual state of her career (Don't look back), getting old as a popstar (crossroad), her relationship with her art (Microphone, Do it again, Love song), hope while facing a disaster (Progress), becoming apathetic while trying to protect yourself from suffering (like a doll), going from sex partner to sex partner due low self-esteem (Last Angel).

Can you reduce it all to "songs about romantic love"? Yeah, if you apply a really narrow view while reading those lyrics (as a lot of them don't even mention love or romance) and you are missing out on a lot, like Coelacanth said.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

YOU are delusional. Or didn't read the lyrics. Or both.

sending mail is another of her songs about suffering for not being forgiven, she has tons of that through her discography. Virgin Road is about married, but the focus isn't on her marriage, is on the dialogue with her mother. She herself said it was an answer song to A Song for xx. Blossom is her summer song about never becoming an adult, she also have released those during her whole career.

Letter is about HERSELF (and yeap, she confirmed that on an interview), unless is a song about masturbation (while drunk and throwing her life way), it has nothing to do with romance. the next LOVE is far more about her cynicism concerning relationships than it is about romantic love. Return Road is about her divorce, you can reduce that to "romantic love", but really? It's not like that didn't happen, or didn't caused her any pain.

Since Rock'n'Roll Circus she is dealing with some pretty mature subjects... alcoholism (Party queen, Letter), divorce (Return Road), the failure of her family (Eyes, Smoke, Magic), her deafness (count down), her relationship with her mother (Virgin Road), her public image (Wake me up, Ivy, Beloved), the actual state of her career (Don't look back), getting old as a popstar (crossroad), her relationship with her art (Microphone, Do it again, Love song), hope while facing a disaster (Progress), becoming apathetic while trying to protect yourself from suffering (like a doll), going from sex partner to sex partner due low self-esteem (Last Angel).

Can you reduce it all to "songs about romantic love"? Yeah, if you apply a really narrow view while reading those lyrics (as a lot of them don't even mention love or romance) and you are missing out on a lot, like Coelacanth said.

I'm not one to back down so easily but I must say what you just typed really made me nod my head.. thank you for the insights.

Btw I have never said they are all 'songs about romantic love'; just citing small excerpts from here and there, like Coelacanth's take on petal and my use of End roll. My point wasn't how she has resorted to writing songs about love relationships... but more on how she has shifted to writing about romantic love a lot more blatantly than in the past

I can tell you are really a big fan of the Party Queen era... it's one of her more insightful albums too. I wasn't too hot on it cos it was everywhere but I like your insights on the album. Hopefully more people will understand what she was trying to say then (no excuse for the self-indulging I am a Lonely Queen stint in the tour but whatever)

[marty]

Originally Posted by Coelacanth

I believe her lyrics are profound as always. Sadly, they've been overshadowed by the 'antics' in her persona life, poorly executed PVs/image, and schmaltzy acting in stage performances with her lead male dancers.

Pretty much what I think.
Not to say people can't complain (Ayu did spoil us in the past, and she's now paying the consequences, lol), but I get irritated when they get out of line and act like EVERYTHING she does nowdays is garbage.
Like, it's not. Some things are getting worse, but others are just as good as before, and if you liked those in the past good, ol' days (example: lyrics and her way of singing being super emotional), you can enjoy some of her current songs too.

[Surreal17]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

YOU are delusional. Or didn't read the lyrics. Or both.

sending mail is another of her songs about suffering for not being forgiven, she has tons of that through her discography. Virgin Road is about married, but the focus isn't on her marriage, is on the dialogue with her mother. She herself said it was an answer song to A Song for xx. Blossom is her summer song about never becoming an adult, she also have released those during her whole career.

Letter is about HERSELF (and yeap, she confirmed that on an interview), unless is a song about masturbation (while drunk and throwing her life way), it has nothing to do with romance. the next LOVE is far more about her cynicism concerning relationships than it is about romantic love. Return Road is about her divorce, you can reduce that to "romantic love", but really? It's not like that didn't happen, or didn't caused her any pain.

Since Rock'n'Roll Circus she is dealing with some pretty mature subjects... alcoholism (Party queen, Letter), divorce (Return Road), the failure of her family (Eyes, Smoke, Magic), her deafness (count down), her relationship with her mother (Virgin Road), her public image (Wake me up, Ivy, Beloved), the actual state of her career (Don't look back), getting old as a popstar (crossroad), her relationship with her art (Microphone, Do it again, Love song), hope while facing a disaster (Progress), becoming apathetic while trying to protect yourself from suffering (like a doll), going from sex partner to sex partner due low self-esteem (Last Angel).

Can you reduce it all to "songs about romantic love"? Yeah, if you apply a really narrow view while reading those lyrics (as a lot of them don't even mention love or romance) and you are missing out on a lot, like Coelacanth said.

completely agree

[Andrenekoi]

Originally Posted by waterballoon

I'm not one to back down so easily but I must say what you just typed really made me nod my head.. thank you for the insights.

Btw I have never said they are all 'songs about romantic love'; just citing small excerpts from here and there, like Coelacanth's take on petal and my use of End roll. My point wasn't how she has resorted to writing songs about love relationships... but more on how she has shifted to writing about romantic love a lot more blatantly than in the past

I can tell you are really a big fan of the Party Queen era... it's one of her more insightful albums too. I wasn't too hot on it cos it was everywhere but I like your insights on the album. Hopefully more people will understand what she was trying to say then (no excuse for the self-indulging I am a Lonely Queen stint in the tour but whatever)

IMO Party Queen is her most personal album since A Song for xx, the one she despicts herself on her most human imperfect self. There's no playing victim, no glam, no tries to get empathy, just the story of a woman whose problems on confiding on other people and tendence to resorting to escapism (being it through drugs, parting or "smoke and magic") led her to loneliness. And that's why I don't see the "lonely queen" thing on the tour as self-indulging; the whole point of that was that she put herself on the Lonely Queen role. Not the "cruel, evil, world", not "those people unworth of trust", not the stuff she blamed for her problems during her whole career, only herself.

Party Queen is my 2nd favorite album from hers, behind only Love songs.

[waterballoon]

Originally Posted by Andrenekoi

Party Queen is my 2nd favorite album from hers, behind only Love songs.

at least Love songs is both our favorite album

looking back, Party Queen was good as an album I think. the individual songs may not be really strong, but as a whole, especially from your perspective, I could see how it's the adult version of A Song For xx.

personally I didn't feel the execution was done well, or enough for such a theme. she had all these great ideas about digging into herself to write such lyrics but the visuals were... odd to say the least, the tour accompanying it seemed more like a self-indulgent mess (I thought for the tour she could really go all out and be this sarcastic, cynical Party Queen in a hotel, but it came short for me)... then again this is Ayu. she always has good ideas that fall short in execution. and she's going through (another) rough period so I'll give her that

[Andrenekoi]

Again, I love the whole execution of that era, the exepction being the NaNaNa video. Considering everything she did from AT10 to AT12, I have very little to complain.

[Delirium-Zer0]

Ayu just has a huge problem with overestimating how easily fans will find the "sadness" behind some of her outwardly happy material - she said in I think CD Data that the theme of the B&D PV was sorrow, for example... I'm a huge fan and even I can't pick up on that. In fairyland, however, the sorrow hiding in the background was easy to find thanks to the execution of the instrumental parts of the song.

I think the "I am a lonely queen" thing was her getting frustrated that no one was hearing the sadness she thought she encoded into the song & album booklet. I don't blame her for doing it but I can't help but glare and just be like "If you'd produced the song & cd booklet properly in the first place..." >_<

[ayumisrael]

But what was wrong with the CD & booklet excecution on the first place? They conveyed exactly what she wanted it to convey, unless if people take it literally (drinking with minimal clothes in the house partying).

The problem is that most people don't see these things, I myself admit I don't and then I'm like what does it have to do with anything or why doing it like this? But knowing a bit more on the spoken artists, it just can't be that literal and meaningless.

[pchan1986]

ayu will never be the same as she was years ago. she evolves with the time. i must say i'm not fond of her latest album but i love merry-go-round. I like how Amuro Namie who is older than ayumi, continues to surprise me with her wonderful songs. its not about a person's age but a person's willingness to bring beautiful music and videos. I wish ayumi could've done the same. i love ayumi no matter what. as an entertainer, ayu changed. those who've been a fan of her for years have to realize that we too changed.

[primavera♥]

Idk, people reference other artists. But not all of these artists have been on point for their whole careers even if they're super great and heavily adored now. The whole comparison thing will always be off to me. Especially when I look at both the big picture and small details.

I think different biases just create a lot of opinions that don't always seem to make sense to me when I really go back and look at everything.

[Delirium-Zer0]

I agree on the comparison thing... Not to knock Namie down at all, but there are certain standards I expect from Namie and certain standards I expect from Ayu. I EXPECT Ayu's stuff to be very deliberate and high quality and to always be meaningful. So when a video doesn't seem to be any of those things, it's disappointing. Sometimes I'll look at a video or album booklet closer and get the "Ooooh!" moment that makes me appreciate it more, but other times I'll look at it closer and get the opposite, and it'll confuse me.

With Namie's stuff, I expect it to be fun and high quality, but not cerebrally engaging at all. This is a FAR easier standard to live up to. There are occasional disappointments (like the "ALIVE" video), but for the most part as long as the final product is polished & shiny and professional, she's done her job, as have her handlers. I don't expect Namie's songs to fit into my life, so when they do it's a pleasant surprise. I don't expect Namie to do anything especially epic or creative, so again, those are pleasant surprises. I EXPECT Ayu to go above & beyond which is honestly perhaps a bit unfair to her.

I do think some of us (myself included) expect more of Ayu, based on her record of performance whenever we became a fan. I became a fan during the vogue/Far away/SEASONS trilogy - it's entirely possible no one can keep up the hands-on approach she had at the time. Her videos between WHATEVER and Ladies Night were definitely more meaningful than not overall. Even since then though, there was an occasionally meaningful video scattered around among stuff that was at least high-quality and polished, like Namie levels of good IMHO. However, with the videos on "Colours," the polish isn't even there. I mean, in "Angel" at the end, the perspective on the rendered angel wings is so far off it's distracting. If you did that in a computer animation class you'd fail HARD. YouTubers do better CG work than that. And the dancers are tumbling & moving on an obvious axis so you can tell where the harnesses are even if you can't see them. The complaints about Ayu's music video material right now are justified.

Bringing it back to the cerebral element... she used to be much clearer about the melancholy back then. Nowadays she says she finds it most sad when someone is smiling when they're unhappy... fair enough, I certainly agree, but you have to show us the unhappiness too, and not just the smile. You're only communicating one thing, and yet you say you strive to be understood. The execution is just completely wrong lol.

[Andrenekoi]

^It's an album, not a photobook. You can't ignore the way the music influences the perception of the rest of the package.

You only see the "happy" part on the photobook, it's the music that gives it a new layer of interpretation.

[Delirium-Zer0]

And yet until fans like me pointed out the sadness in the booklet, they still didn't notice. And it's not just cuz we don't know the lyrics, either - crazy happy fans dancing during live performances of "Party queen" didn't look like they heard the sadness in that song at all - granted I personally think that one was their fault for not listening closely enough (or simply considering excessive drinking fun rather than destructive), but it is another in a long line of "sadness" presented as "happy" that she's not being clear enough about.

The Bold & Delicious PV will NEVER seem to have a theme of "sorrow" no matter how much I look at it.

[Andrenekoi]

I never heard of her saying B&D had sorrow as theme... There's no sorrow there unless you consider Pride to be paired with it, being B&D when the cameras are on and Pride when the cameras are off...

[Delirium-Zer0]

CD Hits, January 2006 (as translated by Misa):

"'Bold&Delicious' is super high and exciting, and the assertive singing is cool too. But if you can sense the sorrow behind it, then I’ll be glad. That’s why the PV is like this too, because it’s theme is 'sorrow'."

[Andrenekoi]

Them, I would say she links glam life with sorrow.

[Coelacanth]

Some New Yorkers would interpret Ayu dancing around on the back of semi in a fur coat as she passes C-TOWN and 99¢ Depot as being quite sorrowful, lol.