[Charts & Rankings] AKB48 surpass Ayu as best selling female Japanese artist

[Diego-kun]

Originally Posted by EndOfTheWorld

The biggest difference is that Ayu will always be remembered and represent an entire era of music in Japan. AKB48 is just one of many idol groups of this new era who happens to be commercially successful.

AKB48 is not just another group. They achieved huge success in a time when female idol groups were in the dark by making a difference with theater stages, senbatsu elections, janken tournament, etc. We can't deny their impact in the J-pop scene in this current decade. Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katchyusa, Flying Get or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were big hits.

Even so, this sale record is not real and can't be compared to Ayu's. Yes, one reason is because it's a group vs solo artist but there's a stronger reason. AKB48 huge sales are due to crazy fans buying hundreds of singles in order to get a hadshake ticket or senbatsu vote. Their singles also have multiple editions with different covers, songs and extras. Ayu sold million of copies without having all those. She sold because her music was good and people liked it.

In a recent LINE female idol popularity poll, AKB48 ranked 5th. Perfume topped the poll, followed by Nogizaka46 and Momoiro Clover Z. Then, why AKB48 latest single has sold 1 million and Perfume 49k? How many people buy AKB48's singles because they like the songs and not because they wanna get a handshake ticket to spend 30 seconds with a cute girl?

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

Even so, this sale record is not real and can't be compared to Ayu's. Yes, one reason is because it's a group vs solo artist but there's a stronger reason. AKB48 huge sales are due to crazy fans buying hundreds of singles in order to get a hadshake ticket or senbatsu vote.

This is why I never count AKBs sales. They are popular. They are not THAT popular. Same reason why I don't count Exile's one million seller either; it was obtained through super manufactured means.

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

In a recent LINE female idol popularity poll, AKB48 ranked 5th. Perfume topped the poll, followed by Nogizaka46 and Momoiro Clover Z. Then, why AKB48 latest single has sold 1 million and Perfume 49k? How many people buy AKB48's singles because they like the songs and not because they wanna get a handshake ticket to spend 30 seconds with a cute girl?

Yep. My experience when I was over there is that culturally AKB actually did not come close to having the same kind of impact as say, Morning Musume did or Arashi or SMAP by a longshot, yet "somehow" they have higher sales. It's a sham.

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by Diego-kun

AKB48 is not just another group. They achieved huge success in a time when female idol groups were in the dark by making a difference with theater stages, senbatsu elections, janken tournament, etc. We can't deny their impact in the J-pop scene in this current decade. Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katchyusa, Flying Get or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were big hits.

I have to disagree, I don't think they've had any real impact in the Japanese music industry apart from their huge sales.

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

I don't care that someone outsold Ayumi, it just bothers me that even though AKB48 is very popular, their sales are only huge because each fan spends 1/3 of their house income purchasing 200 copies of each single. They're not ashamed of that and even post the pictures online. Those are not real sales, that's not real popularity and finally, that's not a real impact.

And last but not least, I am not by any means trying to offend any of the girls personally or any of their fans. You should listen to whatever you want and buy as many CDs as you want, but I also believe it's extremely important to be realistic.

[Corvina]

Originally Posted by oaristos

I have to disagree, I don't think they've had any real impact in the Japanese music industry apart from their huge sales.

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

I don't care that someone outsold Ayumi, it just bothers me that even though AKB48 is very popular, their sales are only huge because each fan spends 1/3 of their house income purchasing 200 copies of each single. They're not ashamed of that and even post the pictures online. Those are not real sales, that's not real popularity and finally, that's not a real impact.

And last but not least, I am not by any means trying to offend any of the girls personally or any of their fans. You should listen to whatever you want and buy as many CDs as you want, but I also believe it's extremely important to be realistic.

Just wondering - so those sales are less creditable, ause less people bought more copies compared to more people buying single copies? Why?
I mean, nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, looking at it objectively.

You can dislike them as much as you want (not a fan either), but they had quite a big impact the last ten years.
So I agree with Voltron. Even if they fade away within a year now, they will be remembered.

Also compared to Ayu, who made a huge part of her sales in a time, where physical sales were much higher than they are in the last years, AKB48 was popular in a time with steadily and heavily declining physical sales ( and no, digital isn't that big, it"s just about 20% of the whole Japanese market).

Though Oricon should separate groups and solos in their ranking for sure. That's strange.

[a❤martian]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Just wondering - so those sales are less creditable, ause less people bought more copies compared to more people buying single copies? Why?
I mean, nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, looking at it objectively.

You can dislike them as much as you want (not a fan either), but they had quite a big impact the last ten years.
So I agree with Voltron. Even if they fade away within a year now, they will be remembered.

Also compared to Ayu, who made a huge part of her sales in a time, where physical sales were much higher than they are in the last years, AKB48 was popular in a time with steadily and heavily declining physical sales ( and no, digital isn't that big, it"s just about 10% of the whole Japanese market).

Though Oricon should separate groups and solos in their ranking for sure. That's strange.

This so much. There are teams of people behind both Ayu and AKB who have put in a lot of hard work and dedication who may get some much deserved validation from this.

And I don't even know why numbers mean anything. There are plenty of amazing aritists who barley sell. We all know Ayu makes great music, numbers aside.

[Corvina]

Originally Posted by visionfactory

For me the argument is that it's less creditable because each fans buy 100 CDs and throw them away

Does this sounds legit to you?



This is trash thrown away at AKB events. Is it garbage or is it valued music by its fans?

I know, this looks bad and I don't appreciate it.
But everybody has its own reasons to buy CDs. And it's their money. You know, it's pretty common for Japan to resell CDs and DVDs at stores like Book Off and auctions sites as well (and you don't get that much money back for it). Doesn't mean they value the actual music less. There are for sure also Ayu fans throwing away stuff from her. Or any other artists.
There is a spot for disposing CDs at the garbage info calender e.g. Most apartements are small and so on.
The physical market is all about packaging and editions.
Ayu as well. Most people don't use CDs anymore, even though they're buying them support the artist. And in the end every CD is going to be thrown away at some point.
So no, it isn't. For whatever reasons, people buy the CDs.

But out of curiosity. Do you know how many are thrown away? Percentage?

Also I want to correct a mistake I made - the digital share of the Japanese music market is about 20% (vice versa for the USA). The numbers for 2016 are out. Had a wrong number in my mind.

Originally Posted by a❤martian

And I don't even know why numbers mean anything. There are plenty of amazing aritists who barley sell. We all know Ayu makes great music, numbers aside.

Quoted for truth!
I listen to so many artists, who aren't popular at all.
It really doesn't matter in the end.

[rainbow_smile]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Also I want to correct a mistake I made - the digital share of the Japanese music market is about 20% (vice versa for the USA). The numbers for 2016 are out. Had a wrong number in my mind.

Sorry, I'm a bit offtopicbut can you link me the source, please? I tell my friends every once in a while that digital sales are far lower than physical sales in Japan, but they never believe me, so I'd like to have something to back up my claims haha

[Corvina]

Originally Posted by rainbow_smile

Sorry, I'm a bit offtopicbut can you link me the source, please? I tell my friends every once in a while that digital sales are far lower than physical sales in Japan, but they never believe me, so I'd like to have something to back up my claims haha

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

@Oaristos:
I see.
But measuring popularity is complicated on its own like somebody already said. I mean, AKB has fans willing to spend that much on them ( and not on other idol groups e.g.).I remember reading an article in 2013 or 2014 about one guy bulkbuying their singles.
And his answer to why was, that he doesn't know another way to show his love and support for the group.
It's somewhat crazy, but it is an achievement as well, I guess, to have such fans.
And their handshake events were huge at their prime (here's an experience in English: http://blog.nilghe.com/my-akb48-handshake-experience/) in stadiums and all, and their performing there as well before the handshake.
So as long as the record company or the CEO isn't buying their own stuff, but actual fans do, I personally don't see a problem.

[rainbow_smile]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Sure. You can find it directly at the IFPI, which measures stuff like that (http://www.ifpi.org/global-statistics.php).
Or you can find a statistic over at Wikipedia, using the IFPI data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob...ket_share_data

This was interesting to read, thank you ^^

Originally Posted by visionfactory

After the conglomerate was sued for a marketing practice of putting 1 out of 48 random posters inside of CDs, therefore even if you buy all the 48 CDs you wouldn't get all the posters.

Wow, putting random stuff in CDs is illegal? Then the whole kpop industry should be sued (random photocards and whatnot) or is it only illegal if it's posters? I'm not being sarcastic btw, I'm genuinely curious.

Also, my opinion on AKB48 outselling Ayu... I'm not surprised at all. A little upset, because I love Ayu, but this day was going to come sooner or later. All records will be broken eventually. I'm not stanning ayu for bragging rights anyway.

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by Corvina

Just wondering - so those sales are less creditable, ause less people bought more copies compared to more people buying single copies? Why?
I mean, nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, looking at it objectively.

Originally Posted by Corvina

I know, this looks bad and I don't appreciate it.
But everybody has its own reasons to buy CDs. And it's their money.

I completely understand your point. But yes, I do think their sales are less credible in the sense that they don't really reflect popularity or impact. Yes, they are famous and have a lot of fans, but when one of their singles sell one million copies in a day you might think that there are approximately one million people listening to their songs, and that's absolutely not true. Ayumi released different versions of her singles and changed release dates in order to manipulate the charts a little bit, but it's very unfair to compare these marketing strategies to AKB48. Most people are actually listening to her songs for almost ten years...

And by the way, I'm not blaming AKB's team for being great at making them sell tons of CDs—that's their job after all and they do it very well—but it's very sketchy to think that the results of those strategies can actually be understood as genuine impact or popularity. They literally can't.

[Bigtop]

Originally Posted by visionfactory

For me the argument is that it's less creditable because each fans buy 100 CDs and throw them away

Does this sounds legit to you?



This is trash thrown away at AKB events. Is it garbage or is it valued music by its fans?

Wow, that is surely NOT environmentally friendly as well...

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by oaristos

I have to disagree, I don't think they've had any real impact in the Japanese music industry apart from their huge sales.

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

I don't care that someone outsold Ayumi, it just bothers me that even though AKB48 is very popular, their sales are only huge because each fan spends 1/3 of their house income purchasing 200 copies of each single. They're not ashamed of that and even post the pictures online. Those are not real sales, that's not real popularity and finally, that's not a real impact.

And last but not least, I am not by any means trying to offend any of the girls personally or any of their fans. You should listen to whatever you want and buy as many CDs as you want, but I also believe it's extremely important to be realistic.

Because I think that's the best comment here and I wouldn't be able to phrase it better at all, I just repost it. =)

[Trinu]

I knew this thread would be fun lol

Originally Posted by oaristos

AKB48 is marketed mostly as a fetish for older men who are interested in really young-looking girls whose record label swears are all virgins. That's why having a boyfriend, drinking, and partying is completely forbidden for them). There's something lacking in the life of those old men and they fill the gap inside them with an obsession for a girl band that lacks any real talent or skill (at least for music).

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

Originally Posted by himawariii6

Yes, I went to check on stage48 and AKB48+sister groups+sakamichi (Nogizaka46 and Keyakizaka46)+graduated members of all of that = 1206 members.

You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As for gimmicks, let's not pretend Ayu didn't release A BEST 2 BLACK/WHITE.
Or that she didn't release two mini albums (LOVE and again) to mash them up in a GASP full length album!
Please.

I do agree that comparing the sales is BS, tbf.
Ayu got most of these sales back in the 00s (she's just added like 500k to her total in the last 5 years), while AKB sells more events than music itself.

For AKB's management Oricon is just another gimmick. Free publicity, basically.
Same reason the million streak is so important for them, because they gets articles and clicks.

Still, to say they didn't have any impact in the industry is a fallacy.
2010 - 2013 was basically about them.
Songs like Heavy Rotation, Everyday Katyusha or Koisuru Fortune Cookie were proper hits that stayed in the charts for months.
They did dome concerts and dome tours around the country, etcetera.

Had it not been for AKB, Morning Musume (and the rest of the Hello! Project) wouldn't have resurfaced again, and same goes for the whole idol industry.
Had it not been for that idol boom, magazines like OVERTURE or UPDATE girls wouldn't have been born (which are more about fashion than flashing boobs, mind you).
Their importance goes beyond creepy otakus unable to get laid.

So yeah, they had an impact and they were popular.
Are they as popular now? Hell no. They even can't admit it, but it shows whenever they do a concert and you compare it to what they used to do back in the day.

But don't Ayu's sales reflect exactly the same? That her peak is gone?

[hud]

Originally Posted by Trinu

I knew this thread would be fun lol

haha yeah that's why I made it

[himawariii6]

Originally Posted by Trinu

I knew this thread would be fun lol



Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Your last sentence is such a low blow that it'sjust wrong.
Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.



You make it sound as if those 1000 girls are doing handshakes to get these sales.
The Sakamichi are completely separated from AKB, and even between them they don't share events.

AKB is the only one that uses the sister groups (the other 48) in their events, which would amount to 300 members.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even talking about their sales or making a comparision. People were contemplating how much members the 48g/46g had so far and I said the total.

Originally Posted by tokyoxjapanxfan

They impacted the industry in the sense that every label tried to make copy cat groups because they were the only act selling records. The influx in idol groups isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Morning Musume sold well in an era when many, many acts were selling well. Idols were only one aspect of Japanese music. The charts from the 90s until maybe 2006/7 were filled with various types of music, as well as solo, bands, duos, and idol groups.

Since 2008/9, the highest selling artists each year were Arashi and AKB. And AKB's sister groups as well as JE made up the majority of the remaining top 10.

For people who enjoy a plethora of genres and artists, this is a frustrating situation. Especially because of the means by which AKB sells their music. And to be honest, many AKB fans are 30+ men with money to blow. Does that mean that all of them are? No. But many are. Middle school students and high school students don't have a lot of money to spend, and music has become one of the less important things to buy physically. Clothes, smartphones, and hair -- like western countries, have become the most important for teens. So artists that can sell millions now are very rare. Hence AKBs sales are looked at with a skeptical eye.

AKB (and idol groups in general) are only as successful as their members allow. Now that the faces of AKB have all left, holding on to known members is more valuable for their relevance. Not to mention the head shaving incident became news all over the world. Perhaps there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the members during the peak remain the well known figures. Once they leave, the interest in the group starts to fade, as does the influence of their music on the industry.


Ayu has used tactics to sell singles/albums, as have most other artists in Japan. Thats normal in Japan. However, events that specifically allow you to meet members, vote on the next members, and directly interact with the artist, along with photo books and included songs, and different members on each cover, is not the same. Particularly when done over and over again.

This. I agree with this so much.
Not to mention, some of the lyrics are problematic: promote harassment (Getsuyoubi no Asa, Skirt wo Kirareta by Keyakizaka46) and enjo kosai (sefuku ga jama suru) and some HKT48 song basically said women should focus on pretty and that they were stupid (Einstein yori Dianna Agron)

[oaristos]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Sure, that's why this year, after one girl announced she was getting MARRIED, the producer asked her to stay in the group.
That's why Sashihara Rino, after a scandal, ranked 1st in their election FOUR times (three in a row).

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

Originally Posted by Trinu

Someone could say there must be something lacking in the life of some kids who write thousands of posts in an online forum.

I was going to ignore this because apparently, you got way too offended by my comment (even though it was directed to older Japanese men and not at the rest of their fanbase), but be mindful of your attitude. No one here is attacking—directly or indirectly—other forum members, so don't be the first to do that.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by oaristos

Sure, that's why they made one of the girls shave her head and post an apology for spending the night with her boyfriend. It's great someone was ranked #1 after a scandal, but that doesn't erase all the other situations.

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Trinu

They didn't make her. She had a breakdown and did it herself.
Management accepting he video and uploading to their YouTube channel was indeed wrong, but nobody asked her to do anything. She could have just left like many others had before.

You actually think this wasn't company backed from the beginning? And even if it hadn't been, them uploading it amounts to the same thing.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

You actually think this wasn't company backed from the beginning? And even if it hadn't been, them uploading it amounts to the same thing.

Sure. But they took it down.
Miichan had a rebirth arc after that that wouldn't have been possible had she left.

As for the lyrics thing.
In alk the groups, they have over 1000 songs. Of course they're gonna tap on every issue possible. But to say they promote prostitution? That's a reach. They simply talked about the issue, same as they've used bullying snd suicide.

Again, I'm not defending them in this ranking thing because everybody knows what's what, but they really have great songs out there and I feel people's bias gets in the way of getting to them.

[Corvina]

Interesting read:https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture.../#.Wbzm65_t3qB