[Charts & Rankings] AKB48 surpass Ayu as best selling female Japanese artist

[kendelle]

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have). People do the same thing to Ayu's career blanketing her as a desperate has-been trying to stay relevant but we'll point out how they're not looking beyond the surface....

AKB isn't perfect but I think we can discuss this without hypocrisy...obviously time will tell who has the greater impact on popular culture. Japan's music industry would probably need a major overhaul to counteract sales inflation and better represent the general public's thoughts on groups. I still think it's crazy it took so long for AKB to overtake Ayu considering how many copies they can sell. that in itself says a lot about Ayu's legacy.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by kendelle

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have). People do the same thing to Ayu's career blanketing her as a desperate has-been trying to stay relevant but we'll point out how they're not looking beyond the surface....

I don't care about their lyrics or whatever. That's fine. People who like them, that's fine too.

What bothers me is including them on a sales ranking because I do believe that their sales are illegitimate to a high degree.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

I don't care about their lyrics or whatever. That's fine. People who like them, that's fine too.

What bothers me is including them on a sales ranking because I do believe that their sales are illegitimate to a high degree.

Blame the game, not the player.

Artists have tricked their way intosales for a while.

Be it with different jackets, different bsides or special editions.

Oricon is aware of all this, hence why they have applied so many restrictions in the sales, but they're still getting those sales.

Tsubasa wa Iranai, for example, sold 1.5 million according to Oricon.
According to Billboard? 2.5.
Sure, it was an election single and people go nuts buying those, but those were still cds sold.

To those surprised that it took them so long, two reasons:
Their first million wasn't until 2010 (5 years after their creation), and Oricon isn't counting everything since a couple of years ago.
They are probably a bit more ahead in copies sold, but whatever.

Again, this record thing is futile anyway.
Everybodyknows how AKB gets their sales, so it should not be taken seriously. But it's also not a reason tobash them when they have over a 1000 songs with plenty of masterpieces scattered around them.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by Trinu

Blame the game, not the player.

Artists have tricked their way intosales for a while.

Nowhere near or close to what AKB does. Multiple album covers don't really increase sales; it just allows fans to choose which they like best. Very few fans of non-idol artists will purchase more than one copy of any release.

And sure, it's true from a business standpoint a sale is a sale is a sale and the record companies don't give a damn if half those sales either end up in the trash or overflowing the shelves of used cd stores.

But that's why now, you simply have to view the oricon ranking as a ranking of physical sales and that's it. It no longer represents an actual ranking of popularity or impact.

In short, Oricon has delegitimized themselves through this. Well, this and counting Exile's "million seller" single, because those sales were BS as well.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by kendelle

I feel like people are just using this topic to unfairly rip on AKB now.

You don't have to like them but a whole bunch of these comments are blanket-labeling AKB as just pedo-otaku bait based on their promotional concept (discounting the more serious and interesting lyrics they have).

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

[Trinu]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

Just... wow.
What a mind.

If those abuse are so well known, do you have receipts? Cause if not, you're just talking bs.

As for their age, Kojima Haruna graduated this year being 29.
Had it not been for AKB, she wouldn't be the model she is today where she's flown around the world just to rub shoulders with other models and designers.

Shinoda Mariko came into the group when she was 20.
She was working in the AKBcafe and the fans reques6ted for her to be into the group.
Yeah, those fans that you just bagged under the same label got a 20year old girl to be part of the group she moved to Tokyo for. So sick.

If you're not their fan, fine, but this lashing out is worse than stan twitter "oh my fav isnt doin so well I'm gonna bash the next girl".
Sad.

By the waym , AKB's 50th comes on November 22th. You can count another million.

[melissalove]

Originally Posted by Trinu

If you're not their fan, fine, but this lashing out is worse than stan twitter "oh my fav isnt doin so well I'm gonna bash the next girl".
Sad.

it happened to namie too. With the threat, why is namie so famous??. I mean really, namie also wasn't "culturally relevant" or an "artist". According to some who can't just stand the fact that some artists are "it" right now. Who's next utada??.

[SunshineSlayer]

Originally Posted by melissalove

it happened to namie too. With the threat, why is namie so famous??. I mean really, namie also wasn't "culturally relevant" or an "artist". According to some who can't just stand the fact that some artists are "it" right now. Who's next utada??.

I don't think anyone ever claimed that Namie was culturally irrelevant . In the 90s, Namie was the best thing since sliced bread for young women and started many trends.

The artist thing could certainly be argued though.

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

While I don't agree with categorizing everything as extremely pedophiliac, although there is certainly that element (I've been to idol concerts and you can tell), there are also fans who are simply just fans. Believe it or not, I'm a fan of idol music, just not particularly AKB. I can appreciate Morning Musume because they at least sing live and have complicated dance routines and their songs were written by Tsunku, so particularly with their older material, there was a lot of musicianship to those songs that you didn't really typically find with idol groups; and I'm a fan of several Johnny's groups (but my faves tend to be the older group like SMAP, TOKIO, Arashi etc., not a fan of the super young groups).

So it's not quite fair to lump everyone as being pedophiles, Johnny's particularly, in general, have a far more general audience than the female idol groups do. BUT in particular with the female idols, they are indeed extremely exploited by the companies that they work for, and if their fans truly cared about them, you would think they would be standing up for them to be receiving better treatment. This isn't something that is just specific to the idol industry unfortunately though; it's something that is ingrained into the culture itself, so there is still quite a long way to go before women, especially in the entertainment industry, are seen as more than just puppets on strings.

[Chibi-Chan]

Originally Posted by SunshineSlayer

While I don't agree with categorizing everything as extremely pedophiliac, although there is certainly that element (I've been to idol concerts and you can tell), there are also fans who are simply just fans. Believe it or not, I'm a fan of idol music, just not particularly AKB. I can appreciate Morning Musume because they at least sing live and have complicated dance routines and their songs were written by Tsunku, so particularly with their older material, there was a lot of musicianship to those songs that you didn't really typically find with idol groups; and I'm a fan of several Johnny's groups (but my faves tend to be the older group like SMAP, TOKIO, Arashi etc., not a fan of the super young groups).

So it's not quite fair to lump everyone as being pedophiles, Johnny's particularly, in general, have a far more general audience than the female idol groups do. BUT in particular with the female idols, they are indeed extremely exploited by the companies that they work for, and if their fans truly cared about them, you would think they would be standing up for them to be receiving better treatment. This isn't something that is just specific to the idol industry unfortunately though; it's something that is ingrained into the culture itself, so there is still quite a long way to go before women, especially in the entertainment industry, are seen as more than just puppets on strings.

I have no problem with people liking idol music. I couldn't care less about which music people like or not.
My point was that with AKB and its subgroups, an idol group was created, that first and foremost is promoted and sold for adult men to masturbate to. If AKB would only be popular among teenagers, so be it. But the main marketing target are adult men, since they have the money to buy all those bikini shots and hundreds of CDs. The way AKB is marketed isn't compareable anymore to the way Momosu was at their high. Momosu's main marketing target were teenagers, especially girls with the same age as the members back then. There would also be a lot to criticise regarding Momosu, but looking back, the early Momosu (I don't know the current Momosu) was nowhere the level of objectifocation AKB is.
If normal people now support AKB and buy their CDs and go to their concerts, they actively support the abuse of children. Only because 5 out of 50 girls aren't minors anymore, doesn't make it any better. Not to mention that they were children, when they entered the industry. Those girls are forced to make "sexy" bikini shots, dance as if they are having sex on stage and so on. Making children do this, so that adult men gain sexual pleasure from it, before they even know what sex is and before they had a chance to explore their own sexuality, is sexual abuse of children.
So if people support AKB, they support the sexual abuse of girls.

And regarding Johnny's, I wasn't saying that their audience consists of pedohiles, which obviously isn't true, but that there were some more or less better known cases of men in the industry taking advantage of boys who are under Johnny's.

[EndOfTheWorld]

Originally Posted by Chibi-Chan

Well, they simply are. I'm very sorry for those girls and I won't blame them. If I would have been asked as a twelve year old if I would like to become an idol, I sure as hell would have "agreed". But everyone who is "supporting" them who isn't a teenager anymore should really ask themselves if it's ok to support the abuse of little girls. When those girls become idols they are just children who are then trained to perform in a way so that older men will get a hard on and masturbate to pictures of them. We all know that's true. That's abuse and it's sad that they already have the impact they have.
The whole idol business, Johnny's included, is (sexual) abuse of children and teens and it's well known that those children are also abused by men in the industry on a regular basis.
When I thought it couldn't get any more disgusting, AKB and its sub groups entered the stage and topped everything we have seen before.
Those children are used by one man in order to earn money for him. And as soon as they get too "old" and aren't interesting for pedos anymore, they get thrown away like garbage. They all deserve better.

I am glad that someone had the guts to say this because I was too afraid to.
This absolutely is true. While yes there are idol groups that consist of people in their 20s, many groups, especially AKB have very young girls in them. I don't think anyone is saying that ALL idol fans are perverted men. But that absolutely is a significant aspect of the idol business and culture in Japan and around the world, especially for girl idols.